Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Problems with pool pump...

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Problems with pool pump...

    So yesterday, I went out to turn my Hayward Pump on. Shortly after I did so, I heard a pop, but the motor kept going. I went over to look at the motor and some smoke was coming out. I quickly turned off the motor and took a day to clear my head since I seem to be stuck in a rut of things breaking down on me lately.

    Anyway, today, I took the cover off the back, and as expected, the wires looked a little charred, so maybe some water got in and it shorted out?

    I cut the wires off, and pulled more cable through and replaced them. Put everything back together and the pump was working fine, however I did notice it would hum for a second or two before coming on. My pressure was high and water was above my skimmer, so I did a backwash, flipping the motor on and off again a couple times. While doing so, I noticed the hum before starting went from probably 1-2 seconds to 2-3 seconds.

    Once I got the water level where I wanted it, I turned the motor off, grabbed my DE powder and got ready to fill 'er up again. This time, I turned the motor on, NOTHING. No humming...No joy.

    Checked the breaker, everything was ok. Switched it off and on again, cause I'm in IT, and when you have problems you reboot..

    Still nothing. I can't get it to come back on. My initial googling makes me think it may be the short weakened the start capacitor and it finally gave up? Possible? The motor isn't very old, as I replaced it the end of 2 seasons ago.

    Any ideas and help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Mark
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Agent99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    688

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    A pop is usually a sound a capacitor can make when it dies. The start capacitor produces a phase shift on the start winding so that the motor is pulled in a particular direction. Without a start cap and winding, the forces pulling a (stopped) motor CW or CCW would be the same and it just sits there. The start capacitor is part of the system that gets the motor going in the correct direction. You might get lucky and be able to replace the capacitor.
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,941

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Do a CTL+ALT+DEL on the capacitor and hopefully that will do the trick.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Divin Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Longview, Texas
    Posts
    4,926

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    If you have an analog volt meter, you can easily test the cap. you can probably do it with a digital meter too, but its easier with analog.

    Short the capactitor out first with a screw driver, then stick the meter leads on the cap posts. The needle should peg out, and then start slowly going back down.

    If the needle doesnt peg out to max, then the cap is bad. (it will just barely jump).

    there are some videos on YouTube if you need a visual.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Agent99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    688

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Not to go too off the Deep End here on electronics, but a capacitor is simply two conductors separated by a dielectric (could be air). When one applies a voltmeter across the two conductors, you are actually charging the capacitor and the flow of current is known as displacement current. However it isn't actually a current of moving charges but a time-varying electric field yet the end result is the same. The needle 'jumps' due to the field and once fully charged, the flow stop and the needle drops back down to zero. The size of the capacitor (in farads) will determine how long the needle will stay 'pegged out' before dropping back to its starting point.
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Well, now I'm really lost. I got a new start capacitor, and changed it out. Still nothing. I took a volt meter to the pump and if I hold the leads to hot and neutral, I get nothing, but hot to ground, I'm seeing 120V, neutral to ground, 120V. Not really sure what to do next.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Agent99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    688

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Your pump is connected to 120 V or 240 V? The voltages you are reporting are...strange....

    I want to make sure about the motor's voltage AND if you wired it back up correctly.

    Measuring 120 V from neutral to ground is troublesome. In an ideal world, there would be 0 volts but in reality there is voltage drop along wires and such but I've seen as high as 30 V there and it is usually not a problem. However, 120 V is not right.
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    It's connected to 120V. I thought I followed the wiring diagram on the back of the unit, but if you are saying something is off, then maybe I made a mistake.

    -Mark
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

  9. Back To Top    #9

    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    1,557

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Is there an on/off switch on the motor?

    If so did you get these readings with it on or off?

    Are you getting the 120 on neutral/ground from the supply/source or is it on the motor end? (Neutral coming out of the motor)

    The fact that you got no reading between the hot and neutral at least tells us that it is not connected to 240 volts.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Quote Originally Posted by danpik View Post
    Is there an on/off switch on the motor?

    If so did you get these readings with it on or off?

    Are you getting the 120 on neutral/ground from the supply/source or is it on the motor end? (Neutral coming out of the motor)

    The fact that you got no reading between the hot and neutral at least tells us that it is not connected to 240 volts.
    Yes, the power runs to a switch, which then runs to the motor. I got my readings with the motor powered on, to see if I was getting any power at all at the unit. I did so, off the screws under the cover on the back of the motor. So, power comes in from the switch, is screwed down inside the motor, and then goes to the capacitor and whatnot. I touched the multi-meter leads directly to the screws right off the power feed.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Agent99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    688

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    So your switch is not ON the motor...it is in a electrical box. It is like an ordinary light switch?

    Can you take some pics of your setup and of the motor how you wired it?
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent99 View Post
    So your switch is not ON the motor...it is in a electrical box. It is like an ordinary light switch?

    Can you take some pics of your setup and of the motor how you wired it?
    Yes, I can. I'm at work now, so I'll post some later today.

    Thanks for helping me out with this.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Here is a shot of the switch and the back of the motor with the wiring.



    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Agent99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    688

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Well all that looks okay to my eye...hard to mess that up with only 3 connections for power. I'll assume you hooked up the capacitor correctly.

    But a 120 V reading from neutral to ground (green/bare) is not right. Are you SURE that is what you're reading? Assuming the pump is wired correctly, you need to backtrack to the switch...check things there...then the sub-panel/breaker box...check things there.

    Are you getting ANYTHING when you turn power on? A hum...something?

    Understand that way back at your Main Panel for your house that the white neutral and all the green/bare wires are tied/shorted/connected together. In any sub-panel wired off your main panel, the white and green/bare are separated.
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent99 View Post
    Well all that looks okay to my eye...hard to mess that up with only 3 connections for power. I'll assume you hooked up the capacitor correctly.

    But a 120 V reading from neutral to ground (green/bare) is not right. Are you SURE that is what you're reading? Assuming the pump is wired correctly, you need to backtrack to the switch...check things there...then the sub-panel/breaker box...check things there.
    I loosened the capacitor and took one cable off at a time, and put it on the same lead on the new one. Thinking that should work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent99 View Post
    Are you getting ANYTHING when you turn power on? A hum...something?
    Nothing. No hum, nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent99 View Post
    Understand that way back at your Main Panel for your house that the white neutral and all the green/bare wires are tied/shorted/connected together. In any sub-panel wired off your main panel, the white and green/bare are separated.
    I'll take the switch apart and check things in there, but I don't understand how this pump has run this way for a long time with no issues. Then one day, pop, smoke, a little bit of service left, and now it's stone dead.

    Could it be that maybe I nicked a wire while I was re-wiring it, and perhaps the hot is making contact with the ground? That grey outdoor cable is a pain in the arse to strip without nicking the insulation.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Agent99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    688

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    It almost sounds like you popped a breaker but you measured voltage at the back of the motor so that ain't it. At this point, who knows what the pop was really from!!

    If you shorted black to white or ground (or the case of the motor), it would pop your breaker and you shouldn't read diddley-squat at the motor.

    Divide and conquer...divide and conquer...work backwards from the motor. Double check your voltage readings. You should have 120 V between black and white. You should have 120 V between black and ground/bare/green (all this with the switch ON, of course, but check to make sure you have 0 V everywhere with the switch off, too). You should have much much less than 120 V between neutral and ground/bare/green...should be under 10 V but could be as high as 30 V.

    Yeah, that grey "okay for direct burial" is thick and not fun to work with!!

    I'm beginning to suspect something in the switch assuming all is fine with the motor....
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent99 View Post
    I'm beginning to suspect something in the switch assuming all is fine with the motor....
    Well, what do you know, I haven't confirmed yet, (have to go buy parts) but I took apart the switch and it was a mess in there. A black with green tape around it and a white with green tape. Two white tied together as you would expect, but the wire nut had melted.

    So yeah, I cut it all out and I'm replacing the whole switch and cover. Probably drop a junction box there, and extend the wire up the fence and put the switch higher up, maybe even throw in a light.

    I'll let you know how I make out.
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    I ripped out all the switch components, box, switch cover, etc. Cut the wires a little shorter and put all new components back on, and everything is working swimmingly. The switch box had a bunch of earwigs inside, and the wirenut on the neutral had actually melted a little. Not good. I also took this opportunity to fix some lazy previous homeowner jobs and run conduit to the switch. Ain't nothing getting in that box this time.

    Thanks so much for all your help Agent99! Now to turn this pond that has developed in the last week back into a pool!

    -Mark
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Agent99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    688

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Awesome-sauce!! Glad to hear you're ship-shape on the electronics now!

    Now to SLAMing! LOL
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: Problems with pool pump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent99 View Post
    Awesome-sauce!! Glad to hear you're ship-shape on the electronics now!

    Now to SLAMing! LOL
    Man, I'll tell you. If it's not one thing, it's another. The motor ran just fine for about 2 hours. Got chlorine in and turned it off to bump it. Turned it on, and it was more noisy then normal. If I let it run, it would run about 10 seconds then pop the breaker. I took the basket out and the impeller is free to turn. I turned it on after that and now it's just humming. It won't kick on.

    It has a brand new start capacitor, so I feel like that isn't the issue. Now what the heck?

    -Mark
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 1/2 Hayward SuperPump, Hayward Perflex DE Filter (EC-65 or EC-75), In-Line Chlorinator, Kreepy Krauly

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •