ClearO3 by Paramont

[IzzyB]

We are going to be building a SWG pool. Is the ClearO3 recommended by this forum or is this something not needed. We had it in our last pool, but we also had a chlorine feeder. So I know it goes against a lot of what is on here. We did struggle with chemistry at times, so thinking about doing more testing and maybe trying to follow the method on here. But I know an ozanator can reduce chlorine needs which I would think would be good, but wanted to ask.

 

[Donldson]

Here is a recent example of someone who tests their FC levels daily and didn't even notice when their ozone system stopped working. Reduced chlorine demand indeed...
ozone purification

Also in that thread is a link to a ton of information by chem geek that gets in to much more detail than I can possibly provide. Running an SWG system to TFPC standards is probably one of the most trouble free ways to run a pool. You need to test regularly to make sure nothing is broken but overall it is a very simple method that I hope you will try. Save the money, skip the ozone and get a TF-100 instead.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Here is a recent example of someone who tests their FC levels daily and didn't even notice when their ozone system stopped working. Reduced chlorine demand indeed...
ozone purification

Also in that thread is a link to a ton of information by chem geek that gets in to much more detail than I can possibly provide. Running an SWG system to TFPC standards is probably one of the most trouble free ways to run a pool. You need to test regularly to make sure nothing is broken but overall it is a very simple method that I hope you will try. Save the money, skip the ozone and get a TF-100 instead.

I agree 100% with @Donldson, ditch the ozone and use the savings to upgrade something on the pool.

One way to think about it is like this - ozone is primarily an oxidizer but not a very good disinfectant. It has very low residual concentration in water, i.e., it doesn't stay dissolved in water for long. Chlorine is both a powerful oxidizer AND a powerful disinfectant and you can easily maintain a chlorine residual in water. Outdoor residential pools typically have very low bather loads and very low bather waste. The UV from sunlight coupled with chlorine is more than effective at clearing bather waste by oxidation. So, since Ozone will primarily help with oxidizing bather waste and bather waste is such a minor component of the "bad stuff" in pool water, you are basically throwing lots of money (system installation cost + usage costs) at a very minor problem for outdoor pools.

Now, if you have an attached spa with the pool, an ozone system could help there with oxidizing bather waste since spas are generally much lower volume, much higher temperature and therefore have very high bather loads. So, if you planned on using an attached spa A LOT, then having an ozone system dedicated to the spa side of the pool might make some sense.

Hope that helps. And, before I forget,

Welcome to TFP

Please do consider using the TFPC method, you'll be amazed at how easy your pool care will be if you stick to the principles taught here.

 

[chem geek]

As noted in Chemistries of Ozone for Municipal Pool and Spa Water Treatment, ozone reacts with chlorine to produce chloride and chlorate salts thereby depleting chlorine. So in low bather-load situations the use of ozone actually increases chlorine demand. This is most noticeable in spas where ozonators roughly double chlorine demand in between soaks (i.e. if not soaking every day). On the other hand, ozone oxidizes bather waste so in high bather-load situations it lowers chlorine demand. Again, this is most noticeable in spas where ozonators roughly cut in half needed chlorine demand from a soak (i.e. the amount of oxidizer needed to be added after a soak). Ozone is also useful in high bather-load commercial/public pools.

However, most residential pools are low bather-load so the ozone does not lower chlorine demand in that situation. Also, most residential ozone systems are woefully undersized so you may not even notice their increased chlorine demand so won't notice anything if you remove one.

 

[IzzyB]

I agree 100% with @Donldson, ditch the ozone and use the savings to upgrade something on the pool.

One way to think about it is like this - ozone is primarily an oxidizer but not a very good disinfectant. It has very low residual concentration in water, i.e., it doesn't stay dissolved in water for long. Chlorine is both a powerful oxidizer AND a powerful disinfectant and you can easily maintain a chlorine residual in water. Outdoor residential pools typically have very low bather loads and very low bather waste. The UV from sunlight coupled with chlorine is more than effective at clearing bather waste by oxidation. So, since Ozone will primarily help with oxidizing bather waste and bather waste is such a minor component of the "bad stuff" in pool water, you are basically throwing lots of money (system installation cost + usage costs) at a very minor problem for outdoor pools.

Now, if you have an attached spa with the pool, an ozone system could help there with oxidizing bather waste since spas are generally much lower volume, much higher temperature and therefore have very high bather loads. So, if you planned on using an attached spa A LOT, then having an ozone system dedicated to the spa side of the pool might make some sense.

Hope that helps. And, before I forget,

Welcome to TFP

Please do consider using the TFPC method, you'll be amazed at how easy your pool care will be if you stick to the principles taught here.

Thanks. We will have a spa, but I don't think it is going thru any different filters/systems. It will overflow into the pool when we have that part turned on. Do you think we should keep it in the proposal because of that? I don't think there is a way to put it only on that. I think we will use the spa once a week? Maybe a little more in the winter when we can't swim.

As soon as I find time to read all the TFPC method I will see if we can. Honestly there is a lot of reading out there on this forum and I have a 6 month old who is not in daycare yet and I work from home. So life is a little busy right now.

 

[chem geek]

For your low spa usage and not being able to have the ozonator only for the spa water, it's not worth it.

 

[IzzyB]

Thanks guys. Talked to husband and read off what you guys said and we are going to remove this from our proposal. We are trying to stay under 50k and removing this should help us since we seem to keep making the pool larger and larger Trying to only put equipment in we need.

On a side note I did start reading the pool school stuff for balancing a SWG pool. I also saw the test kits recommended here and will look into those 3 kits. Should be interesting remembering to test daily. Also tricky when we go away on vacation.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks. We will have a spa, but I don't think it is going thru any different filters/systems. It will overflow into the pool when we have that part turned on. Do you think we should keep it in the proposal because of that? I don't think there is a way to put it only on that. I think we will use the spa once a week? Maybe a little more in the winter when we can't swim.

As soon as I find time to read all the TFPC method I will see if we can. Honestly there is a lot of reading out there on this forum and I have a 6 month old who is not in daycare yet and I work from home. So life is a little busy right now.

Regarding Spa Mode, I'm not sure how your PB plans to plumb it, but usually when you put the pool controls into Spa mode, there are valves that you either manually adjust or are automated so that the pump and filter draw water only from the spa and return it through the spa jets. This, in effect, shuts off the pool from the filtration system and stops any spillover action. This is how my pool operates and it is the normal mode of operation for most attached spas because you want to be able to only have to heat a small volume of water.

In the above case I mention, and assuming you use the spa a lot, then an ozonator can be a helpful tool to have.

Sorry, not trying to cloud the water (haha, pun intended!!) but I just wanted to clarify how attached spas work.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

However, most residential pools are low bather-load so the ozone does not lower chlorine demand in that situation. Also, most residential ozone systems are woefully undersized so you may not even notice their increased chlorine demand so won't notice anything if you remove one.

You know what I find interesting about most ozone system designs is that they use ambient air as the gas source to generate the ozone! Not only is air only 18% oxygen, it is also typically humid air and water vapor, as I understand it, kills ozone generation. In the case of a corona discharge (CD) type ozone generator, you would ideally want to pair it with something like an oxygen generator (the kind that folks with emphysema use) and run it through a drying/dehydrating filter in order to remove trace H2O. That way you would get something like 99% O2 that has low relative humidity and it would be the most efficient way to generate ozone. But I never see that....

And UV generators are even worse in their output efficiency...

 

[Donldson]

Just one comment, you mentioned 3 kits that are recommended? Except for small popup pools like intex only 2 are recommended: the TF-100 and Taylor K-2006. Both of these kits have the most important tests needed, including the very important FAS/DPD chlorine test. This test allows accurate readings of FC and CC up to 50 ppm in 0.5 increments (even 0.2 if needed).

These kits are a bit more costly, but the savings of keeping a clear pool without algaecides or phosphate reducers or other potions more than makes up for it. I personally use the TF-100 and highly recommend it. I have a link to the only store east of the Mississippi that carries it in my signature.

From my HTC One via Tapatalk

 

[chem geek]

In the case of a corona discharge (CD) type ozone generator, you would ideally want to pair it with something like an oxygen generator (the kind that folks with emphysema use) and run it through a drying/dehydrating filter in order to remove trace H2O. That way you would get something like 99% O2 that has low relative humidity and it would be the most efficient way to generate ozone. But I never see that....

Absolute Ozone has ozone generators and oxygen sources or concentrators (purifying and drying oxygen), but these are for industrial use and commercial/public pools. The smallest unit (Nano) runs around $2345 but outputs 15 grams/hour (with the oxygen concentrator for another $1500) whereas typical residential pool ozone systems output less than 1 gram/hour.

 

[IzzyB]

Regarding Spa Mode, I'm not sure how your PB plans to plumb it, but usually when you put the pool controls into Spa mode, there are valves that you either manually adjust or are automated so that the pump and filter draw water only from the spa and return it through the spa jets. This, in effect, shuts off the pool from the filtration system and stops any spillover action. This is how my pool operates and it is the normal mode of operation for most attached spas because you want to be able to only have to heat a small volume of water.

In the above case I mention, and assuming you use the spa a lot, then an ozonator can be a helpful tool to have.

Sorry, not trying to cloud the water (haha, pun intended!!) but I just wanted to clarify how attached spas work.

Yes, we were told when spa mode is on (we will do this via our smart phone) it would not over flow. However, we probably will only do that a couple times a week. So most of the time we will have it circulating with the pool. So I would think an ozonator would not be cost effective for us. Or am I missing something?

- - - Updated - - -

Just one comment, you mentioned 3 kits that are recommended? Except for small popup pools like intex only 2 are recommended: the TF-100 and Taylor K-2006. Both of these kits have the most important tests needed, including the very important FAS/DPD chlorine test. This test allows accurate readings of FC and CC up to 50 ppm in 0.5 increments (even 0.2 if needed).

These kits are a bit more costly, but the savings of keeping a clear pool without algaecides or phosphate reducers or other potions more than makes up for it. I personally use the TF-100 and highly recommend it. I have a link to the only store east of the Mississippi that carries it in my signature.

From my HTC One via Tapatalk

On the post for beginners it recommends these three kits The TF Test Kits TF100, Taylor K-2006, and Leslie's Chlorine FAS-DPD Service Test Kit. Not sure if it is outdated information, but that was the post I started with since I am a beginner. Then moved to SWG balancing under pool school.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yes, we were told when spa mode is on (we will do this via our smart phone) it would not over flow. However, we probably will only do that a couple times a week. So most of the time we will have it circulating with the pool. So I would think an ozonator would not be cost effective for us. Or am I missing something?

Nope, you nailed it! If the pool is low bather load and the spa is low use, then the ozonator is not really needed.

Good luck on the pool build!! It will be nice to see another build thread on TFP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Divin Dave]

Regarding the Leslies FAS-DPD kit which you linked to. If you will look at the SKU which is noted just above the 4 stars, it says K2006.
So, the leslie kit IS the Taylor K2006.

One more hint, Taylor makes 2 sizes of Kits. The 2006 and the 2006C. The 2006C has larger bottles of test regents, which makes their price a little higher than that standard K2006. Even so, the size of some of the regents are still smaller than the TF100.

If you compare apples to apples, the TF100 is the best bang for the buck.

Yes, we were told when spa mode is on (we will do this via our smart phone) it would not over flow. However, we probably will only do that a couple times a week. So most of the time we will have it circulating with the pool. So I would think an ozonator would not be cost effective for us. Or am I missing something?

- - - Updated - - -



On the post for beginners it recommends these three kits The TF Test Kits TF100, Taylor K-2006, and Leslie's Chlorine FAS-DPD Service Test Kit. Not sure if it is outdated information, but that was the post I started with since I am a beginner. Then moved to SWG balancing under pool school.

 

[IzzyB]

Thanks. I didn't dig into looking at the individual kits that much. I just was starting to read the stuff on here and saw they recommended 3 kits. When we get closer to build and finishing I will research and order one of the kits.