Help! Installed New Pump - will not hold prime

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Valdeselad

0
Dec 25, 2014
70
Houston, Texas
Hi Everyone,

Yesterday I completed (or so I thought) our first DIY pump swap, removing the old Whisperflo for a new Intelliflo. Everything went well, pump was installed, got it primed, and ran the pump for the remainder of the night schedule as I had programmed.

Fast forward to this morning. Before I leave for work I go outside to make sure the pump is turning on per the newly programmed schedule without any issue. To my surprise, there was an alarm on the pump saying it could not prime b/c the basket was dry (and sure enough, it was). There are no noticeable leaks on the pad, but my fear is that there is a water leak somewhere. I should point out that the pad is at a higher elevation than the pool, probably 3 feet or so. We had a leak repaired last year (it was behind the skimmer), and the company that fixed the leak said that there were no other leaks.

I should also point out with the old Wisperflo, the pump basket would also be dry when it started up, and the pump would usually take 30 seconds or so to pull water through the system as it was starting up. Unlike the Intelliflo however, it would not stop the pump from working.

What are my options? Is this certainly a leak causing air to get in the system? The only thing I can think to do in the meantime is get the pump primed again and keep it on 24 hours a day so it maintains the prime.
 
Looks like you need to install a check valve on the intake side of your pump to hold water in the basket. Not sure if you can change the programming of the pump to give a longer amount of time before it goes into alarm, but that might be another option.
 
Killer95Stang said:
Looks like you need to install a check valve on the intake side of your pump to hold water in the basket. Not sure if you can change the programming of the pump to give a longer amount of time before it goes into alarm, but that might be another option.
Click to expand...

Thanks @Killer95Stang - appreciate the reply. I've never installed a check valve, is that difficult?

I'm still concerned that fundamentally there must be a leak somewhere. I can't understand how a closed loop system would allow water to move unless air was getting in somewhere.
 
You are correct in that there is a leak. A check valve may will fix it but not always. I am not a big fan of check valves.

Got to Pool School and read the article on suction side air leaks.....that's likely what you have. My first suggestion would be to go directly to every connection you made with the new pump. Richard320 says, "the last thing you fixed is the first thing that breaks". I believe you will find your air leak somewhere within the work that you did. A pic often helps.
 
duraleigh said:
You are correct in that there is a leak. A check valve may will fix it but not always. I am not a big fan of check valves.

Got to Pool School and read the article on suction side air leaks.....that's likely what you have. My first suggestion would be to go directly to every connection you made with the new pump. Richard320 says, "the last thing you fixed is the first thing that breaks". I believe you will find your air leak somewhere within the work that you did. A pic often helps.
Click to expand...

Thank you @duraleigh - I will be sure to to check everything again but when I look at our new connections everything "looked" ok. I'm concerned because even with the old Wisperflo the basket wouldn't stay full of water after the pump turned off. And when it did turn on, it took a good 30 seconds before water was flowing into the pump and filter would come up to pressure.

Does this mean there has to be a leak somewhere between the skimmer and the pump? Again, the leak company fixed a leak behind the skimmer last year and checked everything to make sure there were no other problems.
 
I had the same issue when I installed my intelliflo.. Had a suction side leak I wasn't aware of with the old pump. You can extend the priming time in the controller, but the pump is smart and won't allow you to damage it by running dry, so that may or may not work. I solved my issue by tracking down the suction leak and fixing it. Like others said, check valve will work as well
 
You might inspect any seals you have on the suction side:

pump basked lid

threaded union to pump body


Running the pump dry is never good even for priming in about 30 seconds.

Anything more than a few seconds, over a period of months the pump seal will eventually fail
and have to be replaced. That happened with my setup earlier this season.
 

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duraleigh said:
You are correct in that there is a leak. A check valve may will fix it but not always. I am not a big fan of check valves.

Got to Pool School and read the article on suction side air leaks.....that's likely what you have. My first suggestion would be to go directly to every connection you made with the new pump. Richard320 says, "the last thing you fixed is the first thing that breaks". I believe you will find your air leak somewhere within the work that you did. A pic often helps.
Click to expand...

That pool school article is very helpful...thank you for that.
 
Two tricks that work for finding suction leaks are shaving foam and plastic wrap. Shaving foam, (not the gel, the cheap foam stuff) will be sucked into any leak showing you where it is, and plastic wrap will temporarily seal it confirming the location of the leak.
 
Also check the weir door at skimmers just in case they are stuck closed.

- - - Updated - - -

chiefwej said:
Two tricks that work for finding suction leaks are shaving foam and plastic wrap. Shaving foam will be sucked into any leak showing you where it is, and plastic wrap will temporarily seal it confirming the location of the leak.
Click to expand...

That is a great idea , will have to store that to memory for future use !!!!!!
 
I don't know whether you have hoses or PVC lines on yours, but I had the same issue when I change my sand and MPV on my filter.

All mine ended up being is that I had not pushed the hose going from the skimmer to the pump up on the connection far, and tight enough. Although it looked fine, it was in fact sucking enough air to prevent me from establishing, and maintaining prime. Thanks to the good folks here at TFP, and a few more wiggles of the hose moving it further up on the connection, I was up, and running in no time :). I hope this helps. Have a nice day.
 
Crackerjack4u said:
I don't know whether you have hoses or PVC lines on yours, but I had the same issue when I change my sand and MPV on my filter.

All mine ended up being is that I had not pushed the hose going from the skimmer to the pump up on the connection far, and tight enough. Although it looked fine, it was in fact sucking enough air to prevent me from establishing, and maintaining prime. Thanks to the good folks here at TFP, and a few more wiggles of the hose moving it further up on the connection, I was up, and running in no time :). I hope this helps. Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

Thanks @Crackerjack4u - all PVC connections here, but your point is well taken. We are going to check all the connections carefully to make sure they are all tight and secure.
 
If you used unions, Did you put the O-rings in them. Do not over tighten pvc threaded connections.....they will crack.

One more thing to consider, get your pump primed and then with the pump running, check for a WATER leak on the pressure side. That will turn into an air leak when the pump is turned off and it will allow your pump to drain back to the pool.
 
duraleigh said:
If you used unions, Did you put the O-rings in them. Do not over tighten pvc threaded connections.....they will crack.

One more thing to consider, get your pump primed and then with the pump running, check for a WATER leak on the pressure side. That will turn into an air leak when the pump is turned off and it will allow your pump to drain back to the pool.
Click to expand...

Thanks @duraleigh, that's a great point. I should point out we have had some recent issues with small leaks on the sand filter, and recently replaced the main o-ring under the air relief assembly...there may be some other o-rings we should replace as well that aren't showing an "obvious" leak. The filter and pool equipment was close to 10 years old when we bought the house so we have been replacing/repairing quite a few things that were previously neglected.

I guess there would be an additional o-ring on the drain plug, but not sure else. All the valves have o-rings that need to replaced as well I'm sure. So much fun ahead!
 
Update for tonight - cannot even manually prime pump. loading the basket with water, but it won't stay full. Pump comes on, tries to prime for about 3 seconds and shuts off. I'm at a complete loss for what to do. My pool will be green in no time if I can't get this pump running.
 
Random thoughts,
Do you have an air bleed on your filter? If you do, open and close it while the pump is trying to prime. Ive had to do this.
Did you use lube on the lid O Ring? Did you use unions on the pump? Did you lube those?
Is the water level in your pool high enough?
Is there a Vortex in the skimmer when trying to prime? If so, add water to the pool.
Are all of your valves set properly? (Spa return should be off and Pool/Spa valve turned to Pool Only)
Is the pump basket turned the right way?

Until you get it going, you can add bleach to the water and stir it around with your brush and net. Enlist the family to help.
 

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