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Thread: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

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    Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    Fist let me provide some basic information :
    Pool - Above Ground - 24ft round Steal pool - approx. 13,000 gals.
    Frog inline Chlorination system (Mineral pack + Chlorine pack)
    Filtration is Sand filter with 1 horse pump


    I've had the pool now for about 7 seasons. The first liner (yes I said first liner), started developing brown staining after the first or second season and progressively got worse. I spoke with the pool company and there best guess was ground mold, which I was told once it takes root in the liner there is nothing I could do. So about 2 seasons ago I replaced the liner, and had them install a plastic matting under the liner to prevent this from happening again. Well I've now stated seeing this brown staining again. Should be noted the water is and has been crystal clear. I asked the pool store if the Frogs mineral pack could be causing it and was told no.


    A few additional pieces of information which may help is I have wedding cake steps in the pool. To hold them down the steps have 3 bladders which need to be filled, the instructions call for sand but I chose to use rocks / gravel (bought a couple of bags at the home depot). I have test strips but to be honest haven't used them much. I have had the water tested at the pool store a couple of weeks ago and was told I needed Ph Up and Alkalinity UP which I added. Had the water tested again today, and was told my phosphorus was a little high so I'll be adding the appropriate chemical for that tomorrow. Here are the numbers provided by the pool store:


    Free Chlorine: 0.0 ppm (I shock every weekend, and have 2lbs of shock waiting to go in but was told by the pool store not to shock it for 2 days after applying the Phosphorus chemicals
    Total Chlorine: 0.2 ppm ( I also bought a new Frog backpack to replace the one that is almost empty, but again was told to wait on installing for 2 days).
    Combined Chlorine: 0.2 ppm
    PH: 7.5
    Hardness: OVR247 ppm
    Alkalinity: 35 ppm
    Cyanuric Acid: 38 ppm
    Copper: 0.1 ppm
    Iron: 0.1 ppm


    Sorry for the long post. I asked them if the staining could be Metals, but they tell me my metals are low. I guess I'm hoping someone will tell me its not ground mold, but something easily correctable so that I don't end up having to purchase a third liner with in the next couple of years.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    Hello Steve. Welcome to TFP. Based on your thread title, I was 99% you had metals in the water, but based on the readings above for copper/iron, I'm not so sure. But say, the first thing you really need to do is stay clear of the pool store for products and testing. You need to take charge of your pool with a test kit from TFTestkits.net. Everything you do from this point forward begins there.

    Don't waste money on algaecides, phosphate removers, etc. Stick with regular liquid bleach for right now - about 1 gal each evening until you can get either a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006. Then we can get proper test results and really help you better. For now, perhaps try rubbing some crushed vitamin C tabs on a stain, or perhaps even an old chlorine tablet on the stain to see if that helps.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    Hi! You will be so glad you found us. I am sorry to say ............you have been "pool stored" They are selling you stuff you do not need and will cause problems. Oh wait it already has

    First step.............do NOT put the frog backpack in please oh pretty please! It adds metals to your water and metals are bad for a pool.

    Second step order your own test kit. You can look in my siggy to find the pool kits we use and love. This will save you SO much time and money!

    Yeah I know the pool store will test for free but...........is it really free if you walk out with $$ stuff????? nope!

    I am going to share a link with you. It will show you what we use to maintain our pools. Most of it can be bought at Walmart! Neat huh???

    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    We can help you work on your pool. Let us know when you order your test kit.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    Are you *still* using the Frog mineral packs? I would venture to say that is the cause of staining..... we don't like 'em and don't recommend them.

    I'd also suggest you refund the PhosFree as its overpriced and generally unnecessary if you'd just keep enough FC and CYA in your water. Why do you "shock" every weekend yet what do you do for chlorine during the week? If you don't have a salt water chlorine generator, liquid chlorine (aka "bleach") works just as well. And without any unwanted ingredients.

    As one guy here says- "A pool is like a pet. You have to feed it daily whether you want to play with it or not".

    Time for you to head to PoolSchool and review some basics of pool chemistry. The link is on the top right of this page.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    Hi Steve,
    the frog system you are using contains copper ions as an algaecide, and copper leaves black stains in the pool.
    Here is a thread about it, and this is why we dont recommend using any system, being mineral packs or algaecides that use copper.
    HELP with Copper Stains

    If its iron staining, that can be easy enough to remove. But first you need to make sure if its iron or not. The easiest way is go rub a Vitamin C Pill on the stains. Yes, regular ol' Vitamin C pill. If the stain lifts, then its iron.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    Thanks for the quick responses. I thought after 7 seasons I was an old salt at maintaining pools, but it looks like I'm wrong.

    Kimkats:: I'm sorry to say that I'm not just now adding the Frog, it was what the pool store sold with the pool so it's been in use for 7 seasons. Since the season here is almost over I was thinking about replacing it with an inline Chlorine dispenser (don't want a Chlorine float in the pool). The problem is though I like the lower Chlorine levels in the pool, people always tell me they like the fact that the water doesn't burn their eyes like in most Chlorine pools. What do you / anyone else reading this recommend using?
    Artesian Riverview 24 Ft Round 54" Wall Steel Pool (Dec 2008)
    Approx: 13,500 Gallons
    Sta-Rite 200lb Sand filter and 1hp Sta-Rite Pump
    Wedding Cake Steps
    Frog Chlorination system

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    These two links basically say it all:
    Pool School - Recommended Levels
    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    - - - Updated - - -

    Tablets/pucks drive-up your CYA and lower pH. A pool balanced properly with TFP methods is unlikely to cause red eyes. There are other threads that get into great detail about that specific issue.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Chesapeake, Virginia
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    Re: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    YippeeSKippy:: Yes currently I am still using the mineral pack and back pack (until now I've had no reason to doubt it).
    My parents have always had pools and have instilled shocking every weekend which is why I do that, as for Chlorine during the week isn't that what the FROG is for?
    I've never heard of using bleach to Chlorine, can't that bleach or dull the liner? How do I determine how much to use?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks everyone, looks like I have some reading to do.
    Artesian Riverview 24 Ft Round 54" Wall Steel Pool (Dec 2008)
    Approx: 13,500 Gallons
    Sta-Rite 200lb Sand filter and 1hp Sta-Rite Pump
    Wedding Cake Steps
    Frog Chlorination system

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    The bleach is perfectly fine on the liner and equipment when used according to the Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart. That's where having the proper test kit comes-in.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    Household bleach is the exact same chemical as Pool Store liquid chlorine, just the strengths are different.

    Bleach is usually 8.25% whereas liquid chlorine is often >10%. The.Very.Same.Chemical. Honest!

    The bleach & liquid chlorine is nice because unlike pool store granular chemicals, the liquid doesn't add "other stuff" which may be either CYA or Calcium. You only need x amount of CYA and vinyl pools don't even need calcium. So we like to add our chemicals singularly instead of some compound mixture. We use just what we need and leave the rest out.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Please help new member with liner staining problems.

    You are heading in the right direction----------reading and learning!

    All I have to do each day is run a FC test and add what is needed. Most of the time is it about 6 cups of chlorine!

    I am going to give you another link. It will show you what needs to be done with your pool. After a while you will be able to tell what your pool needs just by looking at it!

    Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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