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Thread: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

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    Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    My pool builder cheaped out and installed a single speed pump as the filter pump (I didn't know any better at the time). Its a Hayward TriStar 2HP motor with an SF of 1.1 (Hayward SP3215Z). In looking at the Tristar documentation //www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/parts-diagrams/TriStar.pdf, it appears that I might be able to save some money by keeping the wet end and just switching the fixed speed motor to a Tristar VSP (http://www.hayward-pool.com/shop/en/...on-sp3202vspnd).

    The other alternative is to switch out the whole pump, including the wet end, to an Ecostar or a Maxflo VS or even switch brands to Pentair Intelliflow. Another consideration to make sure that whatever VSP selected is supported by the Omnilogic. The only explicit mention of a VSP in the Omnilogic documentation is the EcoStar.

    I read somewhere that the Tristar VSP motor is very different from the others mentioned above but not sure of the details. Any suggestions?

    P.S. I plan on keeping the existing pump as a backup.
    53K Gallon Plaster in-ground with ALL Hayward equipment including Omnilogic Automation, Phantom Turbo Cleaner, SwimClear Cartridge Filter, Heater, Dual T-15 Salt cells. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speedstir.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    Have you priced the motor and drive? It is usually just as much money as a new pump.

    I believe the new version of the TriStar VS (SP3200VSP) motor and drive are very similar to the EcoStar only less power. There is an older version of the TriStar (SP32206EEV) that is different but I am not sure you can buy it anymore.



    I think the only difference is the max flow rate (i.e. impeller size). According to the manuals, they share a lot of the same parts.

    http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/manuals/EcoStar.pdf
    http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/manuals/TriStarVS.pdf
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    Mark, you're right! After looking into prices, there is no savings to be had from trying to keep the wet end and just buying the motor and drive. In fact, in the case of the EcoStar, the motor and drive separately cost more than the whole pump! Also, the price difference on Amazon between the EcoStar and TriStar VSP is only around $60.

    Given that I'm replacing a 2HP pump with SF of 1.1, which of the two pumps do you think is more appropriate?
    53K Gallon Plaster in-ground with ALL Hayward equipment including Omnilogic Automation, Phantom Turbo Cleaner, SwimClear Cartridge Filter, Heater, Dual T-15 Salt cells. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speedstir.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    Honestly, given your location ($/kwh and season length), I would probably recommend a two speed over a VS unless you have the need for all those different speeds and/or your power company has a generous rebate for a VS. Also, don't forget that with a VS, you will also have the cost of surge protection to add in.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    Yeah, what Mark says.
    Before you splurge on a VS pump, check out the 2 speed pumps. At 1/2 speed, they will provide 1/2 the flow rate, but for only 1/4 of the energy costs.
    The VS pumps sure are nice though. Love mine.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    My only concern with a 2 speed pump is that at half speed, it may not generate enough flow engage both flow sensors of my SWG. In my setup, the output from the heater goes into a T and splits to two separate flow sensors and T-15 cells, and then joins back together with another T. It would really stink to go thru the expense of buying a 2 speed pump only to find out that the lower speed is not going to run the SWG.


    53K Gallon Plaster in-ground with ALL Hayward equipment including Omnilogic Automation, Phantom Turbo Cleaner, SwimClear Cartridge Filter, Heater, Dual T-15 Salt cells. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speedstir.

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    ahhhh. good point!
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    travisr100's Avatar
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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    Keep in mind that the ONLY Tristar VS pump that will work with Omni Logic is the SP3202VSPND. They specifically released this pump for Omni. This version of the Tristar doesn't have a display either. It's assumed it will always be controlled by the Omni. I've never had a 2 speed pump but I have both the Ecostar as a main filter pump and the Tristar mentioned above as my feature pump. I love the infinite control of the pump speed using Omni. I can tweak it just where I want it to get the desired effect on my spa spillway.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    That's really important to know. Thanks.

    It's down to the Tristar VSPD and the Ecostar. I'm assuming that the pump will spend the majority of its time at a low RPM, producing just enough flow to trigger the flow sensors for the SWG's. Is there an easy way to determine which pump is more efficient at a given lower GPH output?


    53K Gallon Plaster in-ground with ALL Hayward equipment including Omnilogic Automation, Phantom Turbo Cleaner, SwimClear Cartridge Filter, Heater, Dual T-15 Salt cells. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speedstir.

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    travisr100's Avatar
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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    You'd have to ask one of the pump experts on the efficiency. I'm not qualified to answer that. I've just had quite a bit of experience with the Omni and these two pumps. I finally tweaked my ecostar and figured out that for my pool 21% speed is the minimum I can run and still trigger the flow switch. I don't have a salt cell but I do have a Stenner tank for bleach. I was able to set up an interlock so that the bleach pump can't run unless the flow switch senses flow. You'd have to play with your pool to figure out what works for you. But again, I can say that I'm extremely happy being able to have such fine grained control over the pump speed.

    What size is your plumbing? How many returns do you have? Do you have a spa? Water features? Does the Tristar 2hp pump you currently have seem to give you adequate flow? Do you have just the one pump?
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    Quote Originally Posted by travisr100 View Post
    What size is your plumbing?
    Plumbing is all 2" PVC

    How many returns do you have? Do you have a spa?
    Two returns in the pool. 10 return jets in the spa. When the 'pool filter' is turned on, the water is returned to all 12 (valve is open to both). When 'spa filter' is turned on, water is returned to spa jets only (valve closes pool return). The spa overflows into the pool.

    Water features?
    I have a completely separate waterfall and 1000 gallon basin (not sure what to call this) that is a different body of water from the pool. It has a separate filter and a separate pump. BTW, This pump is a perfect candidate for a 2 speed pump because it needs the 2.6 HP to crank the waterfall, but can use a much slower speed to clean the small pool.

    Does the Tristar 2hp pump you currently have seem to give you adequate flow?
    Yes, see below.

    Do you have just the one pump?
    Besides the Filter pump and the 2.6 HP Waterfall pump I mentioned above, I have a booster pump for the cleaner, a 2 HP pump for more force out of the spa jets, and a 1.2 HP pump to increase the spa overflow into the pool. All of them are single speed Tristar pumps.
    53K Gallon Plaster in-ground with ALL Hayward equipment including Omnilogic Automation, Phantom Turbo Cleaner, SwimClear Cartridge Filter, Heater, Dual T-15 Salt cells. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speedstir.

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    travisr100's Avatar
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    Re: Convert to VSP and keep wet end or upgrade?

    Sounds like one heck of a pool! Quite a setup. I'm very involved with my Omni however my knowledge of plumbing and pumps is limited. I can tell you that if you want a display and more horsepower the Ecostar is the way to go. If you don't mind not having the display I'd go with the Tristar VS. I can't stress enough how nice it is to have such granular control over all the flows. The other item I plumbed in right after my pool was built was a Flowvis flow meter. Really opened my eyes to how much water my pump was moving at various speeds. For instance my Ecostar running at 50% is pumping at 58 GPM. At 100% it's pumping about 110 GPM. So on 50% I'm turning over 83,520 gallons per day. WAY more than I need to turn over on my 13K gal pool. Now I run it at the min speed to keep the flow sensor triggered for most of the day just so I'm constantly sending data to Hayward so I can grab it. If I turn the pump off I lose my temp, pH, and ORP data.

    I've got two LED color bubblers on my tanning shelf. I'm like a kid with the slider on the Tristar VS dialing it in exactly where I want it so I get just the right sound from the water falling.

    It almost sounds like you could eliminate a pump if you were using a couple of Ecostars.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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