Thanks for all the help. I think I can sleep a little tonight now. Talk more tomorrow.
Chlorine demand---in Kentucky---5 times in 4.5 years
- Thread starter jim brink
- Start date
That's Very true Aussieta. Way to be on your toes and catch that.
. So Jim, as Aussieta just pointed out, IF your FC level is above 10ppm, and Since your FC level is in fact right at 10ppm right now, your pH reading will Not be accurate anyway.
An adjustment of the pH would Not be in order until after your FC levels are below 10ppm, and only then rechecking your pH will give you an accurate reading of what your pH level truly is. Hopefully by the time your TF100 arrives that will in fact be the case. The way your pool is running through chlorine your FC level could drop below 10ppm today, or sometime over the weekend too. But then and only then can you accurately recheck the pH level, get an accurate reading of the level, and then be able to accurately adjust it if needed.
Also with ALL the powder shock that they've had you add over the past 24 hours, your CH level will probably be rising significantly too, but luckily since it was CAL HYPO the CYA shouldn't rise too. Although some CYA would do you some good, and help hold that FC level better for you. If your Calcium level shots too high you have to worry about scaling of your pool liner etc. since it is not vinyl, as well as equipment issues if left untreated.
But we will be able to help you get your CYA level and pH If low, adjusted up pretty easily, but depending on how high the Cal Hypo in the shock brings your Calcium levels up from those, 40 bags of bioguard burnout 73 shock over the past 24 hours that the PS had you add, you could possible be looking at a partial drain to get the high calcium levels back down UGGGG. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that isn't the case, only accurate testing with the proper test kit will tell.
So just continue to hang tough and not do anything right now. Once you get your own good test kit in, recheck all your levels, and then you can be advised on what needs to be done with your pH, your CYA, and you CH levels at that time. Have a Wonderful Day!!!
Hi, Jim,
Your frustration comes through in your words. Don't look back.....that's done. The simplicity of what we teach will have your eyes wide open in short order and your pool will sparkle before it's time to close it.
The cornerstone article is "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. You will learn there that chlorine is not this "chlorine lock" "chlorine demand" mystery that pool stores make so mysterious. It is simply an ozidizer that will burn up the organics that are in your pool and making your pool cloudy. The more organics that are in your pool (like growing algae), the more oxidizer you need to burn them off.
The second thing that reduces chlorine is UV from the sun. That's why we use CYA to protect the chlorine from being completely burned up by the sun.....then it can continue to do it's job of oxidizing the organics.
Sorry, I got on a roll. Anyway, start with that article and ask us lot's of questions. hundreds of people here are willing to help.
Your frustration comes through in your words. Don't look back.....that's done. The simplicity of what we teach will have your eyes wide open in short order and your pool will sparkle before it's time to close it.
The cornerstone article is "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. You will learn there that chlorine is not this "chlorine lock" "chlorine demand" mystery that pool stores make so mysterious. It is simply an ozidizer that will burn up the organics that are in your pool and making your pool cloudy. The more organics that are in your pool (like growing algae), the more oxidizer you need to burn them off.
The second thing that reduces chlorine is UV from the sun. That's why we use CYA to protect the chlorine from being completely burned up by the sun.....then it can continue to do it's job of oxidizing the organics.
Sorry, I got on a roll. Anyway, start with that article and ask us lot's of questions. hundreds of people here are willing to help.
- Jul 3, 2013
- 9,028
- Pool Size
- 15000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool SJ-40
Welcome to the site, your going to love your pool in short order
Don't worry, once your test kit arrives we will get you going...
Don't worry, once your test kit arrives we will get you going...
Welcome to TFP
!I wouldn't feel bad at all. I mean how would you have known what was here and that people inside the industry that you had entrusted to give you advice, that they would be so WRONG? I certainly didn't know. I found the home page of TFP; and didn't go to the forum until later. I remember that I was trying to figure out what this CYA thing was all about and why I had been told, suddenly, not to add any more stabilized chlorine. I knew that something was missing in my understanding but didn't know what. I remember thinking, how did I get this high CYA? How does it work? Can this be prevented? I just was trying to learn and understand, but didn't realize that I would find a website that was going to completely debunk the basics of the pool industry with regards to sanitizing via chlorine, and it's a good thing I did find TFP when I did, because, even though the store told me not to use stabilized chlorine until my CYA worked its way down over the summer (which was correct), they didn't tell me that I needed to keep my FC higher due to the fact that my CYA was 68. If I had not found TFP, I would have just kept keeping FC 1-4 via cal-hypo; I would have immediately had a cloudy pool due to a calcium-based chlorine source in a pool with a rising ph tendency; and in a very short time, I would have had a mess with FC levels being kept too low.
I think most people that find this site are surprised when they realize what they've actually found here. You can always tell by member's first post. They'll start mentioning all these fancy, do-nothing products they falsely believe that is the only way to proceed. Few of them know there is an easier, less expensive, and far superior method to sanitize and care for pools when they first arrive here.
I'm sure that some people come here due to others' recommendations, but I find that most don't have a clue to the gift they've given themselves when they stumble on this site.
Ok guys, It's been a long 10 days dealing with pool company and chlorine demand issues. I am getting more educated about Pool water chemistry and it's making much more sense to me thanks to you. After a very long week dealing with a chlorine demand issue, I have shocked my pool with 48 bags of burnout 73(advice of PC) and after 2 days of this madness and 7 days watching and waiting and testing, I was maintaining a high chlorine level until last night, when I read very low cl level on test strips that I have. So I shocked pool last evening with 2 gal. liquid chlorine. Chlorine level reading 7-10 ppm this morning.
I just received new test kit. Here are my 1st Tf-100 test kit numbers.
ph-7.8
cl-orange, 7-10 ppm or higher
fc-40 drops, 20ppm
cc-2 drops, 1ppm
ch-30ish drops, -700ish ppm
ta-16 drops, 160
cya 20plus
Not sure i've done this correctly. especially cya test. My first shot. surely it will get simpler as I get more accustomed to all the tubes.
- - - Updated - - -
water is clear, looks beautiful.no dirt at bottom of pool at all.
- - - Updated - - -
forgot to mention, 80% drain a week ago.
I just received new test kit. Here are my 1st Tf-100 test kit numbers.
ph-7.8
cl-orange, 7-10 ppm or higher
fc-40 drops, 20ppm
cc-2 drops, 1ppm
ch-30ish drops, -700ish ppm
ta-16 drops, 160
cya 20plus
Not sure i've done this correctly. especially cya test. My first shot. surely it will get simpler as I get more accustomed to all the tubes.
- - - Updated - - -
water is clear, looks beautiful.no dirt at bottom of pool at all.
- - - Updated - - -
forgot to mention, 80% drain a week ago.
2nd reading
ph 7.8
cl orange 7-10ppm
fc 20ppm
cc 1ppm
ch 650ppm
ta 90
cya 20 plus
- - - Updated - - -
water is clear
ph 7.8
cl orange 7-10ppm
fc 20ppm
cc 1ppm
ch 650ppm
ta 90
cya 20 plus
- - - Updated - - -
water is clear
The numbers look pretty good. But From what you posted the FC is way too high for your low CYA. http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/128-chlorine-cya-chart-slam-shock .
First you want to let that FC come down to the SHOCK Level for to low CYA level per the chart. which is 10 PPM. You can lower it to hit for a 40 CYA though because that's where we will be heading it too in a bit.
You've not had an algae issue but I'm curious about the CC-1. I'd really like to see it CC.5 or less so we can be sure there is no algae, or whatever lurking in there somewhere. Be sure and brush well under your steps, ladder, lights, return, skimmer etc. so that perhaps the next test will show the CC lower than 1ppm.
It is most likely fine, but I'd like to see another FC CC test in the morning before the sun is hitting the pool just to ensure there is nothing suspicious in there before we start slightly raising your CYA etc.
ALSO the pH will not be accurate at the moment because your FC is still above 10 PPM so just save your reagents and wait for your fc level to drop below 10 to check the pH again.
Holler back if you have questions on any of this.
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OH and LOL no the CYA test doesn't get any easier to determine. A lot of people have problems with it. Just do the best you can and have someone else look at it too if unsure.
You've not had an algae issue but I'm curious about the CC-1. I'd really like to see it CC.5 or less so we can be sure there is no algae, or whatever lurking in there somewhere. Be sure and brush well under your steps, ladder, lights, return, skimmer etc. so that perhaps the next test will show the CC lower than 1ppm.
It is most likely fine, but I'd like to see another FC CC test in the morning before the sun is hitting the pool just to ensure there is nothing suspicious in there before we start slightly raising your CYA etc.
ALSO the pH will not be accurate at the moment because your FC is still above 10 PPM so just save your reagents and wait for your fc level to drop below 10 to check the pH again.
Holler back if you have questions on any of this.
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OH and LOL no the CYA test doesn't get any easier to determine. A lot of people have problems with it. Just do the best you can and have someone else look at it too if unsure.
With CH at that level you'll want to keep your pH on the lower side, like 7.2, to avoid scaling. CH can only be reduced with water replacement...perhaps something you can work on during the winter months?
ph 7.8
CL- 7 plus ppm
Fc 21ppm
CC .5ppm
Ch-650
Ta--90
cya--no reading, filled to the top
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Can anyone give me advice on when to cover my spa, when to cover my pool?(auto cover) Leave open when raining or not? Let sun bake down on it or not? Close everything at night? Open and keep open all day?
CL- 7 plus ppm
Fc 21ppm
CC .5ppm
Ch-650
Ta--90
cya--no reading, filled to the top
- - - Updated - - -
Can anyone give me advice on when to cover my spa, when to cover my pool?(auto cover) Leave open when raining or not? Let sun bake down on it or not? Close everything at night? Open and keep open all day?
Hi Jim,
You need to let that FC level drop down some so you don't damage your pool. Are you understanding POOL Math alright? If not I'll be glad to help you with how to get the proper amounts of chlorine in there vs too much or too little. Your CYA is only 20, if that, and the 21ppm will cause problems and liner, and equipment damage if left that high. So please for the sake of your pool allow the FC level to come down to between 10 and 12ppm. NO HIGHER (Plus the pool at that FC level for that 20 cya is NOT safe to swim in either so please don't swim in there until the numbers are adjusted properly).
Again, there is No need to test anything other than FC and CC at this time. I'm glad to see the .5 cc today.
The pH will NOT be accurate with a FC higher than 10ppm. Save your reagents and only test your FC and CC levels for now or unless something in there indicates otherwise.
You will need to like I mentioned before let you FC level start dropping down. What does your water look like today?
As far as the covering I left mine open the entire time. The sun baking down will cause a little more Chlorine loss, but just compensate a little maybe 1-2 ppm during the day (not a lot) for it. As far as the rain, I leave mine open and collect FREE WATER lol, but if your water level is high already, or there's to be a lot of wind to blow in debris, the choice to cover at that time is yours. There's really no set to cover at this time or this time etc. Only cover when you feel it is necessary, but also leave uncovered a lot to allow it to breathe too. I hope this helps. Please bring that FC level down. Have a wonderful day.
You need to let that FC level drop down some so you don't damage your pool. Are you understanding POOL Math alright? If not I'll be glad to help you with how to get the proper amounts of chlorine in there vs too much or too little. Your CYA is only 20, if that, and the 21ppm will cause problems and liner, and equipment damage if left that high. So please for the sake of your pool allow the FC level to come down to between 10 and 12ppm. NO HIGHER (Plus the pool at that FC level for that 20 cya is NOT safe to swim in either so please don't swim in there until the numbers are adjusted properly).
Again, there is No need to test anything other than FC and CC at this time. I'm glad to see the .5 cc today
. The pH will NOT be accurate with a FC higher than 10ppm. Save your reagents and only test your FC and CC levels for now or unless something in there indicates otherwise.
You will need to like I mentioned before let you FC level start dropping down. What does your water look like today?
As far as the covering I left mine open the entire time. The sun baking down will cause a little more Chlorine loss, but just compensate a little maybe 1-2 ppm during the day (not a lot) for it. As far as the rain, I leave mine open and collect FREE WATER lol, but if your water level is high already, or there's to be a lot of wind to blow in debris, the choice to cover at that time is yours. There's really no set to cover at this time or this time etc. Only cover when you feel it is necessary, but also leave uncovered a lot to allow it to breathe too. I hope this helps. Please bring that FC level down. Have a wonderful day.
Since you're CYA is not registering at all today, and your CC is now at .5 instead of at 1ppm you can now get some Stabilizer the ingredients need to say 100% (Cyanuric Acid). They have it in powder form, and liquid form-(The liquid CYA is much higher priced, but works almost immediately)
The powder form needs to be appropriately measured, and placed in a sock in front of your return jet, squeezing the sock often to disperse into the water. (most of us use this one but it can take up to a week for the CYA increase to show up using the powder so with you being probably at 0 you might want to opt for the liquid then after your number is better use the powder form afterwards when needed)?
Your Goal CYA is going to be 40ppm for now NO HIGHER because if it gets too high in there the water has to be drained out to remove it. The CYA increase will help your chlorine hold better. They refer to CYA as sunscreen for your chlorine. It helps prevent your chlorine from getting depleted by the sun as much.
If when you get your CYA you want me to help you do the calculations on pool math to get to 40ppm, I'll be glad to.
IF using powder form you will need to buy a small scale that measures in pounds and ounces to accurately measure it out. I got mine at Walmart and it is one of The Biggest Loser scales. I think it was $19.00, but any that measure in pounds and ounces will work.
Anyway get some CYA powder or Liquid form, (The packaging may just say Stabilizer) I got mine at Lowe's our WM here didn't carry it this year.
Once you get it, just holler back at us, and we will help you from there on how to properly measure it, put it in, etc. if needed. I'm trying to locate thread on here that shows the sock method for the powder CYA as soon as I find it I'll post it for you.
It is best to start adding less and go up instead of adding too much then having to drain water to remove it.
The powder form needs to be appropriately measured, and placed in a sock in front of your return jet, squeezing the sock often to disperse into the water. (most of us use this one but it can take up to a week for the CYA increase to show up using the powder so with you being probably at 0 you might want to opt for the liquid then after your number is better use the powder form afterwards when needed)?
Your Goal CYA is going to be 40ppm for now NO HIGHER because if it gets too high in there the water has to be drained out to remove it. The CYA increase will help your chlorine hold better. They refer to CYA as sunscreen for your chlorine. It helps prevent your chlorine from getting depleted by the sun as much.
If when you get your CYA you want me to help you do the calculations on pool math to get to 40ppm, I'll be glad to.
IF using powder form you will need to buy a small scale that measures in pounds and ounces to accurately measure it out. I got mine at Walmart and it is one of The Biggest Loser scales. I think it was $19.00, but any that measure in pounds and ounces will work.
Anyway get some CYA powder or Liquid form, (The packaging may just say Stabilizer) I got mine at Lowe's our WM here didn't carry it this year.
Once you get it, just holler back at us, and we will help you from there on how to properly measure it, put it in, etc. if needed. I'm trying to locate thread on here that shows the sock method for the powder CYA as soon as I find it I'll post it for you.
It is best to start adding less and go up instead of adding too much then having to drain water to remove it.
My pool looks great. The reason for the high FC level is my recent history of high CC and chlorine demand. Pool math seems like it should be easy, but I'm not quite getting it. Do I put goal in left column and current readings in right column? Does it even matter right at this time because FC level is so high. What level should I be looking for? 4.5 FC with .5 CC?
Wonderful I'm glad it's looking good.
Yes pool math can take some getting use to but once you master it it will be smooth swimming. PM is the BOMB LOL.
1st make sure Your gallons of water in your pool are correct at the top. Put your current level in the 1st box, on the left outer side, and goal in the 2nd box, right inner side.
On the very top line Put what percent of chlorine you are using where it says percent, and what size jug you are using.
Then hit calculate.
Once you hit calculate if you will run your mouse cursor over the top line for the Liquid Bleach it will break down how much X amount of ounces is for you making it easier for you to judge it by the jug size and % you are using. That way you know how much to add to get from where you are to where you want to be.
You should be running a level that is equal for your CYA level per this chart. http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/128-chlorine-cya-chart-slam-shock.
So if you are currently at 20 CYA which you said you may even be lower, but we will say 20 CYA for now.
According to the CYA chart you would only need 2ppm Min and 3 Target of Chlorine for your pool.
BUT having a 20 CYA is not a good. CYA see the * on the chart it is not recommended to keep it that low, so you will need to raise it to about 40CYA using Cyanuric Acid as described in comment #36.
and YES a CC of .5 or less is ideal.
So while your FC level is dropping get some Cyanuric Acid (I prefer the powder form myself) It will say Chlorine Stabilizer on the container and the ingredients will be 100% Cyanuric Acid.
To Calculate this yourself,
Make sure your gallons of water is correct at the top.
UNDER the Yellow CYA section of pool math put in 20 CYA as your current, and 40 as your target. Click Calculate
Run your mouse cursor over that section and the 1st line will tell you how much you need in powder form (remember this is to be put in a sock and hung over the pool in front of a return, Detail described in comment #36
The 2nd line will tell you how much is needed in liquid form (the proper amount of this can be poured into the water in front of a return and then Brush that area with your broom after.)
Use whichever line you need to depending on whether you are using powder of liquid form of CYA.
(By my calculations for YOUR water gallons, it is 41 ounces of the powder form, or 106 oz of the liquid form).
Did you get the same answer?
If using powder form it comes in 4 pound containers. 41 ounces is =2.56 pounds. ,so it will be just over 1/2 of the container, but it is best to measure closely and for now ADD JUST 2 POUNDS of CYA POWDER in a SOCK placed in front of your return. The CYA will help your chlorine hold better.
Recap:
Let FC drop to say around 6ppm, but no higher than 10ppm, until we get the CYA adjusted. This way it will still be safe to swim in at that level, and we are bringing your CYA up to met it at the higher level.
Add 2 POUNDS of powder Cya, or 106 oz of liquid stabilizer, to raise CYA from 20 to 40ppm (MEASURE Accurately) it is much easier to add more of this later, then to remove it back out.
Once those 2 things are done and we tweak whatever numbers need tweaking after that you should be in good shape. I hope this helps.
Yes pool math can take some getting use to but once you master it it will be smooth swimming. PM is the BOMB LOL
. 1st make sure Your gallons of water in your pool are correct at the top. Put your current level in the 1st box, on the left outer side, and goal in the 2nd box, right inner side.
On the very top line Put what percent of chlorine you are using where it says percent, and what size jug you are using.
Then hit calculate.
Once you hit calculate if you will run your mouse cursor over the top line for the Liquid Bleach it will break down how much X amount of ounces is for you making it easier for you to judge it by the jug size and % you are using. That way you know how much to add to get from where you are to where you want to be.
You should be running a level that is equal for your CYA level per this chart. http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/128-chlorine-cya-chart-slam-shock.
So if you are currently at 20 CYA which you said you may even be lower, but we will say 20 CYA for now.
According to the CYA chart you would only need 2ppm Min and 3 Target of Chlorine for your pool.
BUT having a 20 CYA is not a good. CYA see the * on the chart it is not recommended to keep it that low, so you will need to raise it to about 40CYA using Cyanuric Acid as described in comment #36.
and YES a CC of .5 or less is ideal.
So while your FC level is dropping get some Cyanuric Acid (I prefer the powder form myself) It will say Chlorine Stabilizer on the container and the ingredients will be 100% Cyanuric Acid.
To Calculate this yourself,
Make sure your gallons of water is correct at the top.
UNDER the Yellow CYA section of pool math put in 20 CYA as your current, and 40 as your target. Click Calculate
Run your mouse cursor over that section and the 1st line will tell you how much you need in powder form (remember this is to be put in a sock and hung over the pool in front of a return, Detail described in comment #36
The 2nd line will tell you how much is needed in liquid form (the proper amount of this can be poured into the water in front of a return and then Brush that area with your broom after.)
Use whichever line you need to depending on whether you are using powder of liquid form of CYA.
(By my calculations for YOUR water gallons, it is 41 ounces of the powder form, or 106 oz of the liquid form).
Did you get the same answer?
If using powder form it comes in 4 pound containers. 41 ounces is =2.56 pounds. ,so it will be just over 1/2 of the container, but it is best to measure closely and for now ADD JUST 2 POUNDS of CYA POWDER in a SOCK placed in front of your return. The CYA will help your chlorine hold better.
Recap:
Let FC drop to say around 6ppm, but no higher than 10ppm, until we get the CYA adjusted. This way it will still be safe to swim in at that level, and we are bringing your CYA up to met it at the higher level.
Add 2 POUNDS of powder Cya, or 106 oz of liquid stabilizer, to raise CYA from 20 to 40ppm (MEASURE Accurately) it is much easier to add more of this later, then to remove it back out.
Once those 2 things are done and we tweak whatever numbers need tweaking after that you should be in good shape.
I hope this helps.
As to the autocover- during a SLAM I would leave the pool open during the day, and perhaps closed at night. This way gasses are released and the sun can help reduce that excess chlorine you've got going on in there right now.
During the off season, I also open my pool cover to enjoy the view, check on it and the skimmer and also to let out any pent up gasses.
During the off season, I also open my pool cover to enjoy the view, check on it and the skimmer and also to let out any pent up gasses.
CL---5ppm
CC---.5ppm
FC---7ppm
Should I be alarmed at all about the quick drop in numbers? When should I do a full test again?
Water is clear and looks great.
CC---.5ppm
FC---7ppm
Should I be alarmed at all about the quick drop in numbers? When should I do a full test again?
Water is clear and looks great.