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Thread: Crystal clear but outa wack.

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    Question Crystal clear but outa wack.

    Hi guys. I'm new to the site, but just fired my grumpy and over priced pool man. I just bought this beautiful old house 3 months ago. Pool is 18 years old. The water is crystal clear. I have new filters ready to put in. New Pool Cleaner working. Water has looked great all 3 months I've been here. But,
    my Tayler K2005 told me today...
    FC 7.5
    CC 0
    PH 7.6
    TA 100
    CYA off scale. Too high to measure !!
    CH 720 !!
    Im guessing the pool has been maintained with tab floaters for years, as it is now.
    I also have a new 55 lb bucket of boric acid setting here ready to go in after I install the new filters. I've been reading + learning everything I can here before making any big changes. Water is crystal clear. I'd like to wait until rainy season (February ) to dump and refill. I think the water company here might be more understanding when it's raining outside?
    I don't want to fix what ain't broke. If you know what I mean.
    Looking for some expert advice please
    Im guessing the Borates could help buffer the effects of the high ch and maybe the potential problems of high cya?
    Plus I'd just like to try the softer water feel and look.
    About 22,000 gal IG gunite/plaster.
    1HP Purex Triton Whisper Flo pump
    Blue Haven 550 cartridge filter.
    Pool cleaner 2 wheel
    Pool with spa is about 18 years old.

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    You are going to have to get that CYA down! Right now you don't know how high it actually is so you can't be sure what to target for FC. You can try diluting the test water and see if you can get the CYA down to a measurable level.

    What you do is mix a certain amount of pool water (10ml) with a same amount of other water (like tap or bottled or filtered) then use that to test with. If it registers on the test you then double the number.

    So if the test registers 60 then your CYA is about 120

    If it still doesn't register you can dilute it further. So like 10ml of pool and 20ml of other and then multiply the test result by 3

    Once you have that then you can figure out how much pool you have to drain.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    You're in a bit of a pickle in CA with that CYA level. You could run the test again with the pool water diluted 1:1 with tap water to get a better idea of the actual CYA. However, the only way you can manage the pool is to lower CYA. Easiest way is to drain the pool and refill... but in CA, you're going to hear about it from neighbors and likely local gov't if you put 10K gallons in your pool. The other option is to find a company that will do reverse osmosis treatment on the water to remove the CYA. Expensive and you may or may not be able to find someone to do it.

    High CH can be a problem, but maintaining pH will go a long way to preventing problems with high CH. Use the Pool Math link and input your numbers. The CSI number is the important number. Most high CH situations can be managed for long periods with proper control of pH and TA. Borates are mostly designated for controlling pH rise and giving the water a little extra sparkle.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    Being in CA, you might not be able to do the drain all at once. If that's true, you can do it in a number smaller drains and fills, it just takes longer and uses more water over all.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    Thanks for your input pabeader. I need you guys, just in case nobody tells u that. At least for now I will use no more clor tabs. Just, like Clorox?. I hate to pay Leslie's
    About 22,000 gal IG gunite/plaster.
    1HP Purex Triton Whisper Flo pump
    Blue Haven 550 cartridge filter.
    Pool cleaner 2 wheel
    Pool with spa is about 18 years old.

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    Like clorox, but don't pay for the brand name unless you have no other option. Great Value is just fine.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    Thanks for your input. Pickle? I hope it's not the hole cucumber! I will use your suggestion tomorrow or tonight on testing the dilution. Glad I asked. Thanks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Okey dokey, thanks
    About 22,000 gal IG gunite/plaster.
    1HP Purex Triton Whisper Flo pump
    Blue Haven 550 cartridge filter.
    Pool cleaner 2 wheel
    Pool with spa is about 18 years old.

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    Make sure it has a % listed. You should be able to find 8.25% most anywhere and if you have a HASA near by they have higher percent they call liquid chlorine or liquid shock.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    It is possible to manage your high CYA pool, but it requires extra diligence. I, like you, bought a house with a pool that had high CYA. In May 2014, my CYA was at 100 ppm (I used the dilution method JVTrain mentions above to confirm it was "only" 100 ppm) and CH around 500 ppm. I read up on this site and was able to keep my FC level sufficient to keep algae away and my pH low enough to avoid scaling. Even with the small amounts of rain we received, I was able to drain about 5,000 gallons over the winter following two separate storms. Although CYA doesn't break down quickly, it will come down slowly over time. By June 2015 my CYA was down to 40 ppm. Much easier to manage this swim season.

    As JVTrain and pabeader mention, you really need to see where your CYA is to determine next steps, but there is a way to manage even if you have CYA at 100+ ppm.
    22,500 gallon IG, plaster, 1 hp single speed Utilitech filter pump, 175 sqft cartridge filter, 3/4 hp single speed Magnatech booster pump, Polaris 280

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    What do you think about me adding 50 lbs of boric acid to tide me over for a couple months?
    About 22,000 gal IG gunite/plaster.
    1HP Purex Triton Whisper Flo pump
    Blue Haven 550 cartridge filter.
    Pool cleaner 2 wheel
    Pool with spa is about 18 years old.

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    I think Richard320 was up around 200+ at one point! He managed it the same way Sunandsky.

    That may have been tim5055 that I was talking about not richard320..oops!.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    Thank you. You give me hope. In my 58 years of watching so cal weather, though, it seems to me when we have had this cool and "wet" of a summer, we get a wet winter. So, not believing all the idiot news hipe, I , myself believe we are really going to have "El Niņo. In like, February. Between hope and logic, I make good decisions. So, I hope and pray for rain this winter. After all...Winter is coming

    - - - Updated - - -

    Extra diligence I can handle. Just retired.
    About 22,000 gal IG gunite/plaster.
    1HP Purex Triton Whisper Flo pump
    Blue Haven 550 cartridge filter.
    Pool cleaner 2 wheel
    Pool with spa is about 18 years old.

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    Quote Originally Posted by spyder1 View Post
    What do you think about me adding 50 lbs of boric acid to tide me over for a couple months?
    I don't think the boric acid is going to do too much for you, and considering that you will have to drain water, you will be wasting the acid, which isn't cheap (I understand this as there is a brand new 55lb bucket that arrived on my porch this afternoon) and will just have to be replaced.
    17.4k gallon IG pool with attached spa (spa itself is 730gal), Super Blue Diamondbrite plaster, Circupool SI-45+ SWG, BH/Hayward Cartridge Filter, 2hp 2speed Hayward Super II pump, , Jandy Valves, Waterway Skimmers, Rheem 400k Heater, Polaris 360 cleaner, built 2000+-, replastered June 2015, TF-100 kit---Here's my pool test reading history

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    Re: Crystal clear but outa wack.

    Thanks
    About 22,000 gal IG gunite/plaster.
    1HP Purex Triton Whisper Flo pump
    Blue Haven 550 cartridge filter.
    Pool cleaner 2 wheel
    Pool with spa is about 18 years old.

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