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Thread: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

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    jeremy's Avatar
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    Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    Currently using a Jandy MHPM 1.5, but the bearings on the motor are shot and I am trying to decide which motor and/or pump to install in it's place. My electric costs vary about 17-20 cents / kwh. I have a Jandy AquaLink RS with outdated firmware. Planning to install iAqualink anyhow, which will have updated firmware to handle vs speed pumps. It's an indoor pool so pump runs year round.

    Pool has 2 skimmers and 2 floor drains, as well as a slide. No waterfall or spa.

    1. Does variable speed make sense in this situation?
    2. Does anyone have experience with this particular model pump and know which motors will fit as a replacement?
    3. Are there any other factors that need to be considered?
    POOL SPECS: INDOOR, 22.5k Gal, Vinyl Liner, L-Shape, In-Ground, Main Drain (2), Skimmer (2), Water Slide, No Spa/Water Features (Dimensions, Pool Pic, Panoramic Pool Pic)
    HARDWARE: Jandy DEV60 Filter / JEP1.5 VS ePump / AquaLink RS Controller, Sta-Rite SR400NA 400k BTU Heater,

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    jeremy's Avatar
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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    Also, I've heard that Aqualink will simply need 2 available relays in order to deal with a 2-speed pump, but what about a variable speed - will it need additional relays?
    POOL SPECS: INDOOR, 22.5k Gal, Vinyl Liner, L-Shape, In-Ground, Main Drain (2), Skimmer (2), Water Slide, No Spa/Water Features (Dimensions, Pool Pic, Panoramic Pool Pic)
    HARDWARE: Jandy DEV60 Filter / JEP1.5 VS ePump / AquaLink RS Controller, Sta-Rite SR400NA 400k BTU Heater,

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    Variable speed pumps generally do not require a relay at all. They are normally connected directly to the circuit breaker and controlled by automation through a low voltage data cable. I am a big fan of my VS pump. Pentair also makes a 1.5hp VS pump, 342001. Do some research on the pump and automation in advance. All automation cannot control all pumps and all pumps cannot be controlled by all automation.

    Pentair SuperFlo VS Pump 342001 | Pentair 342001
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    EVChargeGuy's Avatar
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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    I think the 17-20 cents per is not the total PSEG LI charges per kWh. Depending on your plan with Service charges, power supply charges, Energy charges etc the total maybe more like 20-26 cents per?
    IG Tear Drop, Dark Gray Gunite , 27,000 gallons -Age 50+-years, very old Hayward Split Egg Sand Filter with side mount Multi-port- Hayward SP2600VSP Pump- Hayward chlorine feed (not used since finding TFP) - Laars 315K BTU Oil heater- LoopLoc Safety cover- AquaBot RAPIDS 4WD- TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speedstir- 390 Gal Hot Springs Spa Envoy installed May 2017

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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by EVChargeGuy View Post
    I think the 17-20 cents per is not the total PSEG LI charges per kWh. Depending on your plan with Service charges, power supply charges, Energy charges etc the total maybe more like 20-26 cents per?
    17-20 was essentially my entire bill divided by total KWH usage. I actually used 4 months of usage (2 summer and 2 winter). The true average from my usage is about 18.5 cents.

    I have seen threads that talked about the $/KWH determining whether to go VS or not, in terms of ROI. I'm sure there are other factors, but considering this average, should I even be considering VS?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Variable speed pumps generally do not require a relay at all. They are normally connected directly to the circuit breaker and controlled by automation through a low voltage data cable. I am a big fan of my VS pump. Pentair also makes a 1.5hp VS pump, 342001. Do some research on the pump and automation in advance. All automation cannot control all pumps and all pumps cannot be controlled by all automation.

    Pentair SuperFlo VS Pump 342001 | Pentair 342001
    I dont mind sticking with a Jandy pump or motor if it simplifies the automation part. I guess for now I need to figure out whether to pick 2-speed or variable speed.
    POOL SPECS: INDOOR, 22.5k Gal, Vinyl Liner, L-Shape, In-Ground, Main Drain (2), Skimmer (2), Water Slide, No Spa/Water Features (Dimensions, Pool Pic, Panoramic Pool Pic)
    HARDWARE: Jandy DEV60 Filter / JEP1.5 VS ePump / AquaLink RS Controller, Sta-Rite SR400NA 400k BTU Heater,

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    I normally run my pump at 1100 rpm for skimming and making chlorine with the SWG. It uses 150 watts at 1100 rpm. The savings are big. I also can dial in my flow rate for solar and waterfall. VS pumps are convenient, versatile and very efficient.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    EVChargeGuy's Avatar
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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    In my case even at higher speeds, the VS uses about 25% of the power my old single speed used. what I like about a VS is you can dial in running rpm's .
    Part of the day have the pump set for the lowest RPM that creates enough pressure to keep the heater running when needed and the rest of the day it runs at a low RPM drawing only 160w
    BTW PSEG LI has VS pump rebates, this year it's $350!
    https://www.psegliny.com/files.cfm/p...riable-350.pdf
    IG Tear Drop, Dark Gray Gunite , 27,000 gallons -Age 50+-years, very old Hayward Split Egg Sand Filter with side mount Multi-port- Hayward SP2600VSP Pump- Hayward chlorine feed (not used since finding TFP) - Laars 315K BTU Oil heater- LoopLoc Safety cover- AquaBot RAPIDS 4WD- TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speedstir- 390 Gal Hot Springs Spa Envoy installed May 2017

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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by EVChargeGuy View Post
    In my case even at higher speeds, the VS uses about 25% of the power my old single speed used. what I like about a VS is you can dial in running rpm's .
    Part of the day have the pump set for the lowest RPM that creates enough pressure to keep the heater running when needed and the rest of the day it runs at a low RPM drawing only 160w
    BTW PSEG LI has VS pump rebates, this year it's $350!
    https://www.psegliny.com/files.cfm/p...riable-350.pdf
    Thanks for the rebate info. I had heard about it, but one thing I wasn't able to determine is if i must BUY the pump from the certified dealer in order to qualify. Or am I able to buy the eligible pump online at a steep discount, and then have the "authorized" installer install the pump in order to get the rebate.

    EDIT: According to the PSEG hotline, only the installer needs to be authorized. I can buy the pump anywhere and still qualify for that rebate.
    POOL SPECS: INDOOR, 22.5k Gal, Vinyl Liner, L-Shape, In-Ground, Main Drain (2), Skimmer (2), Water Slide, No Spa/Water Features (Dimensions, Pool Pic, Panoramic Pool Pic)
    HARDWARE: Jandy DEV60 Filter / JEP1.5 VS ePump / AquaLink RS Controller, Sta-Rite SR400NA 400k BTU Heater,

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    That's right, I run my solar panels at 1950 rpm and the pump uses 550 watts of electricity. 1950 rpm produces a significant flow rate.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    I get that variable speeds are great, but considering my setup, which doesn't seem all too complicated, would I need more than a low speed (for normal circulation) and high speed (presumably for the occasional vacuuming?)?

    I have a gas heater and a water slide - does those need to operate on something other than low (or high)?
    POOL SPECS: INDOOR, 22.5k Gal, Vinyl Liner, L-Shape, In-Ground, Main Drain (2), Skimmer (2), Water Slide, No Spa/Water Features (Dimensions, Pool Pic, Panoramic Pool Pic)
    HARDWARE: Jandy DEV60 Filter / JEP1.5 VS ePump / AquaLink RS Controller, Sta-Rite SR400NA 400k BTU Heater,

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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    Jeremy
    Yea the installer needs to be authorized. I bought my online and my pool repair guy installed it- also the installer get $200 from PSEG LI as well.
    Your heater has a pressure switch that needs to be satisfied. I dont know what that pressure is for your heater?

    Pooldv
    My 'higher' speed for the heater is 2240rpm using only 550w. Mine's a 'small block' 1.5 HP and yours a 'Big Block' 3HP
    IG Tear Drop, Dark Gray Gunite , 27,000 gallons -Age 50+-years, very old Hayward Split Egg Sand Filter with side mount Multi-port- Hayward SP2600VSP Pump- Hayward chlorine feed (not used since finding TFP) - Laars 315K BTU Oil heater- LoopLoc Safety cover- AquaBot RAPIDS 4WD- TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speedstir- 390 Gal Hot Springs Spa Envoy installed May 2017

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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by EVChargeGuy View Post
    Jeremy
    Your heater has a pressure switch that needs to be satisfied. I dont know what that pressure is for your heater?
    The flow rate, according to the manual, must be between 40-120. Assuming its properly connected and controllable by the Aqualink RS, is that what the controller is intended to monitor? I.E. make sure that whenever the heater is on, the pump will automatically be set to the proper speed (once that has been determined)?
    POOL SPECS: INDOOR, 22.5k Gal, Vinyl Liner, L-Shape, In-Ground, Main Drain (2), Skimmer (2), Water Slide, No Spa/Water Features (Dimensions, Pool Pic, Panoramic Pool Pic)
    HARDWARE: Jandy DEV60 Filter / JEP1.5 VS ePump / AquaLink RS Controller, Sta-Rite SR400NA 400k BTU Heater,

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    EVChargeGuy's Avatar
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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    I'm a virgin when it comes to Pool automation so this is a question for those who know.
    Since I have a much less sophisticated system, i just bumped the RPM's up a bit at a time until the heater kick on. I then locked that rpm in for one of my set speeds.
    IG Tear Drop, Dark Gray Gunite , 27,000 gallons -Age 50+-years, very old Hayward Split Egg Sand Filter with side mount Multi-port- Hayward SP2600VSP Pump- Hayward chlorine feed (not used since finding TFP) - Laars 315K BTU Oil heater- LoopLoc Safety cover- AquaBot RAPIDS 4WD- TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speedstir- 390 Gal Hot Springs Spa Envoy installed May 2017

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    Agent99's Avatar
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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    I talked to an old hat at Pentair and he suggested I use the psi on my filter as a gauge for what rpm to run my VarSpd IntelliFlo at.

    With my solar panels going, he suggested 15 psi and that equates to about 2500 rpm. Of course, that will vary as the filters become filled.

    In the winter, I can run it as low as 5 psi...I haven't tried that yet so I don't know the rpm but I bet it wouldn't break 1000.

    I recently ordered that fancy gauge that fits in a Jandy check valve so I'm curious to see what the flow is for my system as a function of rpm.
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

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    jeremy's Avatar
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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    Now I am starting to worry about the pip sizing. The Jandy ePump, for example, says it needs 2.5"-3" pipe. Does that mean througout the pool? I have no clue what size pipes are in the ground. I can measure the outside diameter of the pipes near the pad, but is that enough?

    I can measure when i get home, but here's a ook at the suction side. There are 2 skimmers and 2 main drains. Somewhere along the line they feed into one pipe, and that at this valve near the pump they they are combined into one.
    POOL SPECS: INDOOR, 22.5k Gal, Vinyl Liner, L-Shape, In-Ground, Main Drain (2), Skimmer (2), Water Slide, No Spa/Water Features (Dimensions, Pool Pic, Panoramic Pool Pic)
    HARDWARE: Jandy DEV60 Filter / JEP1.5 VS ePump / AquaLink RS Controller, Sta-Rite SR400NA 400k BTU Heater,

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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    Jeremy,

    It may only need the direct feed pipe INTO the pump to be large like that. The rest of the system and most pools use 1.5" or 2" pipes all around.

    For example, Pentair IntelliFlo suggests that the input pipe be straight for at least 5x the diameter of the pipe. So they want 10" of straight pipe into their pump if 2" is used.

    This allows the pump to prime more easily. That old hat I talked to at Pentair suggested I use a 2.5" pipe going into my IntelliFlo pump and he said it will prime must faster and therefore be less wear and tear on the pump and he personally guaranteed me that it would prime in under 10 seconds. He was right!
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

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    Re: Variable or 2-speed - Replacing Motor and/or Pump

    Ok. The space is a bit cramped here, so not sure i'll get "enough" straight pipe on the suction side. The pump i plan to upgrade to (the Jandy ePump) is about 2" taller to the center of the intake, and 2" longer between the intake and the output, so it sounds like the installer may need to do quite a bit of re-plumbing.
    POOL SPECS: INDOOR, 22.5k Gal, Vinyl Liner, L-Shape, In-Ground, Main Drain (2), Skimmer (2), Water Slide, No Spa/Water Features (Dimensions, Pool Pic, Panoramic Pool Pic)
    HARDWARE: Jandy DEV60 Filter / JEP1.5 VS ePump / AquaLink RS Controller, Sta-Rite SR400NA 400k BTU Heater,

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