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Thread: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

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    Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    PoolMath says I should replace 100% of my water -- CH (500), CYA (180), Borate (15). However, in So. Cal. we have drought conditions and I would feel somewhat guilty if I replaced the water in my 10,000 gallon pool. What are the consequences of not replacing the water? I keep my chlorine and PH well in balance and I clean the pool frequently, but these other measures have been high for years. I have noticed no physical or health problems. What do you recommend?
    So. Cal/10K gal pool + Jacuzzi/plaster/fresh water/DE filter/heater+solar/variable speed pump

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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    My first question would be what testing was used to determine your CYA number? Second, how are you chlorinating? Third, you say you are keeping your chlorine well in balance but by the FC/CYA chart you would need to be maintaining a minimum of 14 FC for a 180 CYA. Are you maintaining that?

    As for replacing 100% of your water, you must have one of the targets set to 0. Assuming your reading of 180 CYA is correct then you would want to replace 67% of your water because CYA is the most troublesome level you posted.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    Your borates are fine, Tonto. The CH is a tad high. Check pool math for your CSI. You can certainly run your pool at high CYA. It just takes a lot of chlorine at that level to keep your water sanitary.

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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    Since previous comments are no longer necessary, I will only post this here. Here is the link to using PoolMath, make sure you are using it correctly. Of course the PoolMath instructions are only as good as the results plugged in to it.

    Pool School - PoolMath
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    Tonto,

    I'd like to start off by welcoming you to TFP! I am very sorry for the "debate" that has occurred in your thread, from time to time we tend to get members on TFP that give info that while they believe it to be true......it simply isn't. To avoid extra confusion I've moved the sidetracked debate to this thread. If you wish to read up on the false advice given it can be found there.

    As per your original question,
    What are the consequences of not replacing the water?
    First off I would request that you provide us a full set of current test results and then we can help you with your CH levels. If I can also ask you, what test kit are you using? A level of 500ppm CH is surely manageable, but it's starting to push up towards the level where you need to watch other items such as pH to avoid scaling issues. As per your CYA level, a reading of 180ppm screams a drain/refill to me. At this high of a CYA level, you need to maintain a FC level of at least 14ppm to stay ahead of algae. At this level of chlorine it will be impossible to get an accurate pH level, as that test reads a false high at any level about 10ppm FC. Before I would give you solid advice I'd like to see a complete set of test results from your personal FAS/DPD test kit. Also, a current photo of your water will also give us a nice look at your water hinting to us any other current issues.

    Please answer back with a current set of results and an answer to what test kit you are using. From there we'll guide you step by step to cleaning your water and setting up a plan for you to maintain your oasis.

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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    Thank you all for your responses, although, I don't think I have had my question fully answered. Following is additional information.
    I am using a Taylor K-2005 Complete(high) test kit. Following is a screen shot of the PoolMath results from my weekly testing today. The results are consistent with what I have been getting in the past. Weekly, the only maintenance I do on the pool is to add several trichlor tablets to my floater and a little acid as indicated by PoolMath, in addition to the usual sweeping and vacuuming. Also following is a photo of the pool. The water seems to be fresh and clear, with no signs of algae. Any further guidance would be appreciated.

    PoolMath.jpg
    TontoPool.jpg
    So. Cal/10K gal pool + Jacuzzi/plaster/fresh water/DE filter/heater+solar/variable speed pump

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    There is no reason to replace your water to lower your CH. Poolmath is telling you to replace it to meet the target you entered. As long as you manage your CSI the pool will be fine. Lots of people manage their pools with high CH.

    More on calcium here,
    Pool School - Calcium Scaling
    Langelier and Calcite Saturation Indices (LSI and CSI)
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    Thank you pooldv, I will accept that a high CH is OK. But what about the high CYA and Borate?
    So. Cal/10K gal pool + Jacuzzi/plaster/fresh water/DE filter/heater+solar/variable speed pump

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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    Borate should not get too high and people intentionally add up to 50 ppm Borates. So I wouldn't worry about that. As for CYA, that's the biggest problem when it gets high -- meaning above 80 ppm or so. If one doesn't keep a high enough FC/CYA ratio and gets algae, then doing a SLAM requires an awful lot of chlorine when the CYA is higher.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    I suggest also that you choose under "suggested goal levels" troublefreepool.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    Yes, borate is fine, mine is 50ppm on purpose. Your CYA is super high, I did not notice that first time. For that more than 50% water drain is needed. I like Chemgeek's target of 80.
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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    The reason poolmath said to replace 100% of water is because you put in a target of 0 for borates. if you put in 15 as the target it should calculate the amount to drain to reduce the cya properly
    32,000L Fibreglass Leisure Pools IG 12.5'x23'x5' Pump: AstralPools BX1 1.0HP
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    Re: Consequences of high Ch, CYA, Borate?

    Wrong thread
    --Approx 5061 Gallons of water @ 90% cap.
    --AG Intex Pool 16x48 (http://www.intexcorp.com/28321eh.html) Not the 2015 model.
    --Sand Filter. (http://www.intexcorp.com/28647eg.html)
    --Pool has been used for 3 years now.
    --Was using a poolmaster. Now have a kc 2006.

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