Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    6

    1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    I went to replace the light - it seems like the original light. Got it out pretty easily. I left the bonding wire in but once the fixture was out there is no metal niche. Only a concrete hole with no bonding lug. The fixture attaches to a thin metal ring with no bonding contact. How is it possible there is no metal niche, but there is a bonding wire that just hangs in the concrete niche, that was wire nutted through the light switch to the breaker ground? Which also seems wrong. How do I bond the fixture if there is no metal niche attached to the grid? Why wouldn't there be a metal niche? Is it possible the light never was in a metal niche since it was built in 1978? Short of digging up the entire pool, is there any way to fix this? I know 12v LV still need a bonding wire but if there is no way to get a bonded metal niche would this be a safe possible option? Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
    18k gallon in-ground concrete
    Built 1978 - Granite based plaster
    DE grid filter, 1.5 HP pump, Hayward navigator, TF-100 test kit

  2. Back To Top    #2

    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    1,557

    Re: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    Not sure what is going on there. I have only ever worked on a handful of pool lights and they all had some sort of metal housing/nitch for the light to mount in. Is there any way you could get a good picture of the situation and post it for us to see.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    A 2014 Niche in a concrete pool would generally have a bonding lug or a bonding wire coming out of the shell. It would have conduit on the back that you would run a grounding wire and the light cord.

    So where does the wire that you have come from-- the shell or the conduit? What size is it?

    Pictures would be great.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    6

    Re: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    Quote Originally Posted by danpik View Post
    Not sure what is going on there. I have only ever worked on a handful of pool lights and they all had some sort of metal housing/nitch for the light to mount in. Is there any way you could get a good picture of the situation and post it for us to see.
    Right now it's under water so unfortunately no pics at this point. Unless I end up having to drain the pool. The bonding wire is just hanging freely inside the niche through the conduit back to the switch, wire nutted to the ground inside the switch back to the GFI breaker box.

    The bonding wire is actually terminated inside the niche by a square metal piece at the tip connected to nothing. Could it be that is bonding the water via the breaker ground? And maybe that's how they did it in 1978?

    The only metal is a small lip ring to hold the fixture screw in place - other than that its all smooth finish concrete inside. Could this mean there never was a metal niche since it was built so long ago and the light just sat in concrete?

    Thanks, btw, for the replies.
    18k gallon in-ground concrete
    Built 1978 - Granite based plaster
    DE grid filter, 1.5 HP pump, Hayward navigator, TF-100 test kit

  5. Back To Top    #5

    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    1,557

    Re: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    That square metal piece may have been connected to a niche sometime in the past. Unfortunately, the way it is hooked up now, it is no longer acting as a water bond.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    6

    Re: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    Quote Originally Posted by danpik View Post
    That square metal piece may have been connected to a niche sometime in the past. Unfortunately, the way it is hooked up now, it is no longer acting as a water bond.
    And the water bond is necessary correct? If I replace the 120 volt fixture with a 12 volt would that make the water bond unnecessary?
    18k gallon in-ground concrete
    Built 1978 - Granite based plaster
    DE grid filter, 1.5 HP pump, Hayward navigator, TF-100 test kit

  7. Back To Top    #7

    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    1,557

    Re: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    The water bond is used to even out electrical potential differences between the water and other surrounding surfaces such as a concrete deck or the ground around a pool. Since the copper wire does not seem to be properly connected to the bonding grid around the pool I doubt the nitch (if there ever was one) ever acted properly as a water bond. The type of light does not matter when there is a need for a water bond. A properly installed water bond should always be in place. Stainless steel ladders in the water can also be considered a water bond if they are properly connected to the bonding grid.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    I agree with danpic.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  9. Back To Top    #9

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Wildomar, California
    Posts
    423

    Re: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    Actually, I've seen thus situation before. Cause I'm old, I guess. An old pool like this would have the bonding wire attached to the light itself via a bonding lug. Today the bonding wire is hooked to the can, and with the light in place,also bonds the light fixture. You can attach the bonding wire direct to your light which also involves the ring imbedded the pool wall. You have to jury rig it but it will cover your bonding issues.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    6

    Re: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldPoolMan View Post
    Actually, I've seen thus situation before. Cause I'm old, I guess. An old pool like this would have the bonding wire attached to the light itself via a bonding lug. Today the bonding wire is hooked to the can, and with the light in place,also bonds the light fixture. You can attach the bonding wire direct to your light which also involves the ring imbedded the pool wall. You have to jury rig it but it will cover your bonding issues.
    Well you aren't too old to post on the forum....which I certainly appreciate! It sounds like your wisdom just might save me from the doom of swimming in the dark - or spending thousands digging up the pool.

    But I now have a few new questions. So I attach the bonding wire to the outside can part of the light, which means it's now attached to the metal ring via the screws holding the light in place, correct? Should it also be attached to the common ground with the light wire back to the breaker gfci? What is the bonding wire attached to inside the box?

    Thanks guys for the answers! I really appreciate your time.
    18k gallon in-ground concrete
    Built 1978 - Granite based plaster
    DE grid filter, 1.5 HP pump, Hayward navigator, TF-100 test kit

  11. Back To Top    #11

    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    1,557

    Re: 1978 concrete pool - no metal niche or bonding lug?

    The bonding wire is not directly connected to the grounding system. It should be connected to the rebar in the pool and pool deck along with the pump and heater
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •