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Thread: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

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    Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    My friend bought a house with a fiberglass pool, 12' x 25', 10000 gal., with 4 laminar deck jets, a spa, a 460 sq ft cartridge filter and a variable speed pump. Also has a 250 btu gas heater. There is also a tablet feeder so you can guess what one problem is.
    I went to check his water today as there was some algae on the walls. The results were: 0 fc, 0 cc, 0tc, 5 ph (water in test was yellow so must be lower than 6.8) 0 ta (water was pink without adding any 009 solution) ch 120, cya 100 +. The water is clear and approx 80 deg. I brushed the walls and added cl to get to 13 ppm. I know that a water drain would be good to reduce the cya but with the drought conditions maybe he could manage the way it is. I believe the first thing would be to get the ph in line and according to pool math he needs to add 11 pounds of borax to get the ph to 7.3, since we really don't know the ph prob add half that amount and retest so we don't go over. If he were to just run the laminar jets could that raise the ph enough? After that 5 pound of baking soda to get the ta up to approx 50. At that point the minimum cl level is 7 and target is 12.
    Just wanted to check and see if I'm on the right track. With my pool the ph always rises and the ta has always needed to be lower so all I ever have needed is muratic acid.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    I would save worrying about TA until last once you have everything else under control, he might also use pool water for any plant watering, etc. then replenish the pool to slowly get the CYA down to acceptable levels.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    Repeat the CYA test using the dilution method in Extended Test Kit Directions step 9.

    Besides driving CYA through the roof, those pucks are also responsible for the pH crash. Show your friend this thread, so he's mentally prepared Maintain your chemicals correctly There's a good chance he'll have metal staining when the pH gets fixed, if the heater dissolved into the water.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    So we will get the ph up first, hopefully the heater will be ok. I'll check the cya with the dilution method to see where it really is.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    He's adding 5# of borax tonight, well check what that does tomorrow and add as needed, and also the diluted cya test.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    With the diluted test for CYA the level comes out at 140. Added the other box of borax, the PH test was still yellow, so hopefully that will get the ph into the 7's. After checking ph added CL to get the level to 24, I guess that is above the target for 140 CYA but below shock level. My estimate is approx 17 for target and 55 for shock level.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    Wish I would have read this sooner. I disagree with Issac on this, if your TA is zero then you want to adjust that first because it is far more difficult to raise pH using borax with zero (or possibly negative) TA. If you are still reading zero TA then add enough baking soda to raise his TA to 70. This alone could possibly bring his pH up to a readable level and you can continue adjusting from there.

    On the bright side, the borates should make his water sparkle a bit
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    I'm going to add 4# of baking soda today and see what that gets the TA up to.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    Getting close, the TA is at 70 now, the PH is still at about 7.0, at least I can see its on the scale. Were adding another 5# of borax tomorrow so the ph should get into the mid 7's. The water is crystal and sparkly, the CYA will still be a problem at 140 but we'll see how it goes.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Besides driving CYA through the roof, those pucks are also responsible for the pH crash. Show your friend this thread, so he's mentally prepared Maintain your chemicals correctly There's a good chance he'll have metal staining when the pH gets fixed, if the heater dissolved into the water.
    So his wife's hair turned green after swimming so there must be copper in the water.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    That could certainly have come from the low pH water running through the heater, but without knowing what was added to the water by the previous owner there is no way to be sure. He will want to keep an eye on his heater for any leaking.

    Assuming a significant water change is out of the question then he will want to use either a sequesterant or a product such as CuLator to attempt to remove it.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    ph is up to 7.4 now...
    In ground fiberglass pool, 12' x 25', 10000 gal., with 4 laminar deck jets, a spa, a 460 sq ft cartridge filter and a variable speed pump. Also has a 250 btu gas heater

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    That's perfect, Im glad you signed up to the forum, did you get the shampoo to fix the hair thing? I could let you use my cover pump to remove some water to help with the CYA / copper issue, after the cya is lowered then the remaining copper could be handled with the sequesterant. I'm not an expert on this so anyone who is could help Matt with the process.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    So does Jacks magic blue stuff actually remove the copper? The site says add 1 qt per 10000 gallons initially, the add 6 / 8 oz. more weekly. I did search and read a couple posts but still unclear. My thought was that you add a quart and then the cartridge filter will catch the particles and filter, then you clean the cartridges and the copper is removed, sound correct?
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattwise99 View Post
    ph is up to 7.4 now...
    So Matt is a new member, anyone have any input? I have told him how he could get help here with his pool questions but seems like not much assistance is offered. Thanks to those who did. I see he did introduce himself in another post.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobby1017 View Post
    So Matt is a new member, anyone have any input? I have told him how he could get help here with his pool questions but seems like not much assistance is offered. Thanks to those who did. I see he did introduce himself in another post.
    My input is that if he wants assistance he needs to ask for it. Matt has posted twice, that his pH is 7.4 and an introduction. I don't know exactly what type of assistance we are supposed to give to that.

    I apologize that this sounds confrontational, but many of us are here every day helping out and answering questions. We help those who ask for it and are willing to listen. There are too many posters who disappear after their first post, we don't go tracking them down.

    @Matt: If you have a question, please ask. We will help you in any way we are able to, but we can't answer the question that isn't asked. Several people have commented on your Hi All thread, it would be a good idea for you to read the links posted and ask some questions there.

    @Bobby: I know you are helping out a friend, so please don't think I am getting angry about that. I just wanted to make sure you know the situation as it appears on this side of the conversation. As for Jacks Blue, I have never used it so I don't know. Try to forum search and if that doesn't turn up anything useful try starting a thread with that as the title so more people will see it.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    Donldson, thanks for the info you have offered, he's just moved and has alot going on right now. I realize he hasn't asked much, I have been asking for him. I spend time on the site every day and see the number of response's some threads get so I guess I expected more here.

    I'm Leary of the "jacks stuff" since they say you need to keep adding every week, and the test kit is $100 + to check the level of the stuff, sounds like a money pit. The only real problem is dissolved copper, there is no staining on the surfaces. I guess the only real way to remove the copper is drain and refill, not sure how much copper is ok, but we need to lower cya anyway, pool calc says 60% to get the cya to a reasonable level.

    The last set of water test i took was: FC 20, CC 1, TC 21, PH 7.2, TA 50, CH 120, CYA 140, that was last Friday, he since posted the PH was up to 7.4.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    Getting the CYA down justifies either water change or reverse osmosis treatment. With that CYA it wouldn't surprise me if the previous owners had algae problems and were dumping copper based algaecide in all willy nilly. That is just a thought though, no way to know unless Matt contacts them to ask. After water change or RO then he can get the copper level tested and if it is still high then a copper removal tool can be used. I personally would try CUlator. I have heard that they have excellent customer support and if you have any issues they will work with you to get things working.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
    Pool School - PoolMath - HIGHLY Recommended Test Kits

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    Donldson, thanks for mentioning CUlator again, I guess I missed it in the earlier post. Sounds like an easy way to do remove the metal. I'm going to get one for my pool also just as a precaution, don't think I have much if any metal but might as well remove whats there.

    I just emailed two company's about the reverse osmosis, this may be the best way to go for Matt with combo of high CYA and copper, kill two birds with one stone. Both company's are down south so we'll see is they will come up here or know of someone who will.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Petaluma pool needs water balanced.

    Using a pump, the lawn and landscaping could be watered over time but I know you probably can't dump 60% of the water in one shot and it takes some time to manually disperse the water but on the bright side, his pool isn't so big. For someone moving in, I doubt the pool is a priority right now but everyone is different. It sounds like you are being a good friend...keep it up! You could just dump the water into a clean-out if you desire (keeps the neighbors from seeing what you're doing) but I applaud any efforts to minimize wasting water in our drought-ravaged state.

    When metals are suspected in the water and since most of us don't have metal-testers as part of our normal routine, taking a sample of the water to the pool store to use their metal tester is a good starting point. A sequestrant of some kind (like Jack's Magic), will be necessary to help get the problem metals out of the water. Of course, a complete 100% water change would do that, too. Since we are kinda sorta getting towards the end of the swim season, perhaps the pool can be put off until the winter and/or the pool slowly drained via landscape watering and then he can start fresh next spring. This will take care of metal and CYA problems.
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