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Thread: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

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    MitchRyan912's Avatar
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    Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    So my original pool pump, a Waterway SMF-110, went up I smoke about a month ago, so I replaced the motor and kept the wet end. The new pump had been running fine, but was down for a few days while I re-piped some plumbing. Shortly after getting it all hooked up again, it started to sound funny and started to smell like smoke.

    I'm at a loss as to figuring out What The Heck has caused two separate motors to smoke in less than a month?
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    You may need to double check the wiring. I read one of your previous posts stating you wired a timer control to a 2 speed motor? If both speeds were being energized simultaneously, that would make quick work of frying the motor.

    I would test the total external pressure in and out of the pump, when you get it up and running again.
    Overloading a smaller motor with a larger impeller would also cause a burnout.
    24k gallon inground vinyl liner pool, 8'-3' depth, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, basic 5 chem kit.
    Hayward: DE-60 filter, Superpump VS, AquaRite salt chlorinator w/T-Cell 15, TigerShark QC robot. Jacuzzi hot tub ~350gal. Air blower type, w/8 jets.

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    MitchRyan912's Avatar
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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    The previous motor was a single speed that ran 24/7.

    I didn't change the impeller on the wet end, since the THP rating was the same. New one was .75 HP x 1.6 SF = 1.25 THP. Old motor was 1 HP x 1.25 HP = 1.25 THP. Should I have done so?

    I just check voltage at the panel in the house and at the motor. Same voltage, so noticable voltage drop on the wiring. I'm about to unhook the pump from the timer and take apart the pump to see if anything is blocking the impeller from moving.

    The only major difference between the pumps is that I just converted a deep end vac line to be able to be used as either a return or a vac line, based on how two 3-way diverter valves are set.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    The voltage drop needs to be checked with the motor running, too..... and you need to check current draw. Make sure you have the motor set up for the proper supply voltage.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    The motor is 240v only.

    I checked it with the motor running, and there was no noticeable change that I could see with an analog voltmeter. I don't have a meter that can check current draw, so I can't tell what's going on there.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Does the motor run hot? Without knowing the amp draw, that leaves a question. You may have too much impeller.....but, then why did the first motor fail?

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Yes, it runs hot, but it seemed hotter than normal yesterday. I don't have an ammeter, so I can't check that. I don't know about the impeller. I was told by mas985 on another forum that my impeller is likely fine:

    "As for the impeller, it depends on the service factor of your current pump motor. If the current service factor is 1.25 or lower, then the impeller is fine. Diffuser would not change either way."
    SF of old pump was 1.25. SF of new pump is 1.6.

    FWIW, it seems like we have very similar sized pools, yet we have very different sized motors as far as total HP (1.25 vs .75). What size pipe are you running and how long are your lines? I've got 1.5" flex pipe and I think it was about 30 and 45 feet from the pump to the 2 suction lines, with about 60 feet to the shallow end return.
    Last edited by MitchRyan912; 08-08-2015 at 08:20 AM. Reason: quote attribute
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    What are the amp ratings on the two motors?

    Again, I would also check pressure in and out at the pump.
    24k gallon inground vinyl liner pool, 8'-3' depth, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, basic 5 chem kit.
    Hayward: DE-60 filter, Superpump VS, AquaRite salt chlorinator w/T-Cell 15, TigerShark QC robot. Jacuzzi hot tub ~350gal. Air blower type, w/8 jets.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgarf33 View Post
    What are the amp ratings on the two motors?

    Again, I would also check pressure in and out at the pump.
    Original motor was 7.5A, new motor is 6A at full speed.

    how do I check pressure in and out?
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Nevermind. I'll get the vacuum and pressure gauges on Monday and try to fire up the pump again.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchRyan912 View Post

    FWIW, it seems like we have very similar sized pools, yet we have very different sized motors as far as total HP (1.25 vs .75). What size pipe are you running and how long are your lines? I've got 1.5" flex pipe and I think it was about 30 and 45 feet from the pump to the 2 suction lines, with about 60 feet to the shallow end return.
    I have 1.5" schedule 40 PVC and my lines are about 75' to the shallow end. Filter pressure runs about 8 psi.

    My approach to troubleshooting would be based on the fact that something common to both pumps is the trouble. Assuming the motor spins freely, I'd really be focused on a electrical supply issue that forces the motor to draw too many amps.... at least, first... then?

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    morzh's Avatar
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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    A meter for current is a clamp meter that does not require disconnecting load like a regular ammeter would. They are not very expensive unless you want them to be.

    Uni-Trend UT202A Auto-ranging AC 600 Amp Clamp Meter: Clamp On Meter: Amazon.com: Industrial Scientific
    Seasonal World rectangular pool, 27K gallons (data sheet), 25.3K calculated
    Jandy Stealth JHPU 2.0 PUMP, 2HP
    Jandy CL340 cartridge filter
    Pentair C320 inline chlorinator
    AquaComfort heatpump heater

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewkearns View Post
    I have 1.5" schedule 40 PVC and my lines are about 75' to the shallow end. Filter pressure runs about 8 psi.

    My approach to troubleshooting would be based on the fact that something common to both pumps is the trouble. Assuming the motor spins freely, I'd really be focused on a electrical supply issue that forces the motor to draw too many amps.... at least, first... then?
    As a former electrician, my guess would have been that a 60' run of 12 gauge solid wire might not have been sufficient, but it's been fine for 30+ years and the previous 2 owners of the home. I'd love to upgrade the run to the shed in back, but that means upgrading the main house panel in order to do so. That's a $4000+ project to do all that, and as much as I would LOVE to have our house panel upgraded, that's not in the cards anytime soon.

    I also suspect that the flex pipe may have been compromised somewhere along the way. There a "privacy fence" of arbor vitae trees that were planted right over the line where the pipes run. Any one root might grow towards a round pipe and get deflected away from it, but there are tons of roots and about 15-20 trees in the area where the pipes run. I may need to find someone with a snake to see if the skimmer line is clogged up, as there is a noticable drop in filter pressure when I would only have that single line running. It was about a 2 psi difference between running the skimmer only vs the vac line only.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Would throwing on the pressure gauge only tell me anything useful, or should I go ahead and order up a vacuum gauge from Amazon and wait a couple days to test the pump again, with both gauges installed? I got a pressure gauge from my work today, but they don't have a vacuum gauge (nor does anyone in town.)
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchRyan912 View Post
    I got a pressure gauge from my work today, but they don't have a vacuum gauge (nor does anyone in town.)
    What? You have 2 W W Graingers in Madison......!

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Their mobile site is incredibly difficult to navigate, and where/how I was searching wasn't showing any vacuum gauges. Now that I search for the brand I bought from Amazon, I can find them on Grainger's site. However, they're not available for pickup until Tuesday, so it's a moot point now (plus they're twice the cost compare to Amazon!)

    Other than working on the chemicals for the pool, I'm taking a break from the pool until those gauges get here. I'll post the results once the vac gauge arrives.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgarf33 View Post
    Again, I would also check pressure in and out at the pump.
    1 mm Hg and 7 psi on low speed. That's all I could do, as the pump was shutting itself off on high speed.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    MitchRyan912's Avatar
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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    I suspect there is something wrong with the motor that's causing this problem. Low speed no longer works at all, and high speed just isn't enough to get the pump close to prime.

    It's been less than 30 days, so thankfully there is a new motor on its way.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgarf33 View Post
    What are the amp ratings on the two motors?
    Current draw is 19A and 4.5A on the high and low speeds. Checked each leg and it read the same. Is was sustained until the motor shut itself down.

    the motor is supposed to be 6 and 2.1A, or something close to that!
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Replacement motor smells of smoke, less than 30 days after original smoked. WTH?

    If you still have the old motor, what was the direction? CW or CCW?
    Looks like the new one is CCW but can't find the literature providing the old motor's direction.

    With that kind of current, it sound like you have 120v supply voltage.
    Also, it looks like the new motor may be a psc. So if it is, it uses a runcapacitor that remains in the circuit. Have you checked the capacitor?
    You, would have unusually high run winding current with a bad capacitor.
    Before connecting that new motor, I would definitely check over all of the wiring, especially making sure the timer is not applying power to both speeds at the same time.
    24k gallon inground vinyl liner pool, 8'-3' depth, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, basic 5 chem kit.
    Hayward: DE-60 filter, Superpump VS, AquaRite salt chlorinator w/T-Cell 15, TigerShark QC robot. Jacuzzi hot tub ~350gal. Air blower type, w/8 jets.

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