I have had the usual little fine bits that are expected to wash through as it cleans but nothing at all like I had before so I am happy as well with the 150#'s of HTH I have.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My findings on how not all sand is created equal
- Thread starter 99taws6
- Start date
I have had the usual little fine bits that are expected to wash through as it cleans but nothing at all like I had before so I am happy as well with the 150#'s of HTH I have.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just got off the phone with Tony from QUIKRETE. He made me wait like 2 minutes because he was unable to answer his phone because he had to eat lunch (go figure lol).
He basically said what I suspected. The sand that I purchased is from a production batch that for reasons that might not ever be discovered should not have made it into the bags for sale as pool filter sand.
He contacted the local plant responsible for this region and is sending a rep to the store where I purchased the sand to inspect the sand on the shelves. He asked what they could do to make this right for me and I just told him to fix it for other pool owners in the future. I explained I would attempt to purchase their brand of sand in the future since I know what to look for now.
Overall it was a good experience and I am happy with the customer service provided. I want to also thank chem geek for his help with the leg work. [emoji106]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He basically said what I suspected. The sand that I purchased is from a production batch that for reasons that might not ever be discovered should not have made it into the bags for sale as pool filter sand.
He contacted the local plant responsible for this region and is sending a rep to the store where I purchased the sand to inspect the sand on the shelves. He asked what they could do to make this right for me and I just told him to fix it for other pool owners in the future. I explained I would attempt to purchase their brand of sand in the future since I know what to look for now.
Overall it was a good experience and I am happy with the customer service provided. I want to also thank chem geek for his help with the leg work. [emoji106]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In my ignorance I would have assumed that smaller particles will pack tighter and filter smaller debris, but I guess there's a sweet spot.
The smaller particles won't stay in the filter. They blow out of the holes in the laterals and into your pool
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the extra pics with the penny and ruler. It will come in handy when I open my filter tomorrow!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I just finished a conversation with Tony @ Quikrete and he said that the sand they put in their bags meets their specs of #20 - 40. Based on what I see in the pics it appears that it does not. The sand I see in the photographs look very un-uniform and I believe that sand will blow through the laterals of a sand filter and cause a major problem.
I have invited Tony to comment in this thread. He is a nice guy and it gives him an opportunity to teach us all about how and why the sand comes to us the way it does.
That said, I would not suggest that anyone buy poolcrete sand based on my conversant with him. His position was that the incidence % was so small that Quikrete was satisfied with their Quality control. I personally would not take the risk of the HUGE effort involved in dealing with sand that has not been properly screened.
I searched sand issues reported on the forum and found some other instances of Quikrete sand blowing through laterals......enough to convince me something is not right.
I have invited Tony to comment in this thread. He is a nice guy and it gives him an opportunity to teach us all about how and why the sand comes to us the way it does.
That said, I would not suggest that anyone buy poolcrete sand based on my conversant with him. His position was that the incidence % was so small that Quikrete was satisfied with their Quality control. I personally would not take the risk of the HUGE effort involved in dealing with sand that has not been properly screened.
I searched sand issues reported on the forum and found some other instances of Quikrete sand blowing through laterals......enough to convince me something is not right.
I spoke with tony and he has seen this thread and he also agreed it was most likely a quality control issue with our local plant. He is on top of the issue as far as I'm concerned and I don't have an issue with quikrete or their product just the particular sand that I purchased. As I stated before my post was not to bash a manufacturer or seek retribution it was to educate other owners so that they could properly diagnose and troubleshoot issues with their pools and filter equipment.
Sometimes you get what you pay for and I honestly can't expect a $5 product to be the same as a $13 product 100% across the board. Even with the HTH sand some sand comes through the laterals until it washes and settles down. The Quikrete just needs more washing I guess under normal operating conditions. In my original smaller model sand filter the sand was ok. It had smaller lateral holes and the pump had a lot less pressure. My new filter it was a no go.
It's too easy now to reach in the spout of a bag now that I know what to look for and see what the bag contains so that I can avoid this problem again anytime in the future.
That's what I hoped my post and subsequent pictures will help others with.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm having trouble understanding this here. Can someone help me out, thanks!
My manual says the sand should be #20 (.45 - .55)mm. The HTH sand in the picture looks huge. Definitely most grains are not sub mm. Am I reading this wrong?
Also, this Wikipedia page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_(scale)
Lists US #20 sieve size as .85 mm which contradicts what my manual says.
I am trying to decide what sand to use in my filter?
My manual says the sand should be #20 (.45 - .55)mm. The HTH sand in the picture looks huge. Definitely most grains are not sub mm. Am I reading this wrong?
Also, this Wikipedia page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_(scale)
Lists US #20 sieve size as .85 mm which contradicts what my manual says.
I am trying to decide what sand to use in my filter?
The larger grained sand is what you should be looking for. The quikcrete sand appears too small to use in a pool filter and I would avoid it.
Thanks Duraleigh. That's what I figured too. The part I cannot reconcile is, based on the photographs the larger grained sand looks much bigger than the .45 - .55 mm size that is usually recommended. So should't the sand grains be smaller and in the .45mm to .55mm range?
Also, US # 20 sieve size, if I am reading it correctly from the Wikipedia page is .85 mm which sort of contradicts the .45 - .55 mm recommendation.
I know I must be missing something, I am trying to figure out what.
Also, US # 20 sieve size, if I am reading it correctly from the Wikipedia page is .85 mm which sort of contradicts the .45 - .55 mm recommendation.
I know I must be missing something, I am trying to figure out what.
whatever it is you're missing, I'm missing it too.
I looked at other sieve size sources in addition to wiki, and they all say #20 is .85mm
I looked at several pool sand sites and they all say #20 is .45-.55mm
So, Im scratching my head too. My only conclucsion is that the pool sand folks either has their own sieve standard, or do this on purpose to confuse folks, or they just dont know what they're talkin about.
If it were me, I wouldnt worry too much about it, and get #20 pool sand. I just wouln't get the quickrete. There haven't been any reported issues with any other brands of sand, that I'm aware of.
I looked at other sieve size sources in addition to wiki, and they all say #20 is .85mm
I looked at several pool sand sites and they all say #20 is .45-.55mm
So, Im scratching my head too. My only conclucsion is that the pool sand folks either has their own sieve standard, or do this on purpose to confuse folks, or they just dont know what they're talkin about.
If it were me, I wouldnt worry too much about it, and get #20 pool sand. I just wouln't get the quickrete. There haven't been any reported issues with any other brands of sand, that I'm aware of.
Huh! thats interesting and frustrating. Thanks for the info Divin Dave
My Hayward ST244 manual has the following line "Use only High Rate Sand No. 20 Silica Sand (.45mm - .55mm)". Unless they are referring to radius, I will write and ask them and report back. It could explain why ~ 300 lbs of sand has such a low volume in my filter. The sand level is a good 18 inches from the top as opposed to the 6 inches recommended.
The filter already has sand in it, so I have to decide whether to replace the sand or not. $75 and a 1 hour road trip...
My Hayward ST244 manual has the following line "Use only High Rate Sand No. 20 Silica Sand (.45mm - .55mm)". Unless they are referring to radius, I will write and ask them and report back. It could explain why ~ 300 lbs of sand has such a low volume in my filter. The sand level is a good 18 inches from the top as opposed to the 6 inches recommended.
The filter already has sand in it, so I have to decide whether to replace the sand or not. $75 and a 1 hour road trip...
Sand goes through multiple sieves to get the correct range of grain sizes. Once sorted, a sieve analysis grades the sand based on the size distribution of the grains. The reported size is a "nominal" or simplified rating of the sieve analysis. There's the largest size, which is likely the U.S Standard ASTM sieve #20 (0.841mm). There's the "effective" size, which is typically the smallest size (not more than 10% by weight can be smaller). The effective size is probably the 0.45 to 0.55 mm referenced. Therefore, the nominal grade reported won't give a full description of the sand size range or uniformity.
There's also a coefficient of uniformity which describes the distribution of grain sizes.
Asking the supplier for a full sieve analysis would be helpful.
The Quikcrete product lists the min/max sieve as 20 to 40 (about 0.85mm to 0.425mm).
There's also a coefficient of uniformity which describes the distribution of grain sizes.
Asking the supplier for a full sieve analysis would be helpful.
The Quikcrete product lists the min/max sieve as 20 to 40 (about 0.85mm to 0.425mm).
Sand and Gravel Water Filtration Media - Red Flint
Here is an example of a sieve analysis of filter sand.
Here is an example of a sieve analysis of filter sand.
Hijacking OP's thread just a little.
What does the average Joe do when he goes to the store to buy pool filter sand? He HAS to trust the manufacturer to provide him sand that will work correctly in his filter.
The consumer should not be the one to have all the background info......he should just be able to buy sand and have it the right size. It appears to me that is not always the case.
What does the average Joe do when he goes to the store to buy pool filter sand? He HAS to trust the manufacturer to provide him sand that will work correctly in his filter.
The consumer should not be the one to have all the background info......he should just be able to buy sand and have it the right size. It appears to me that is not always the case.
Wow! thats some good information JamesW. It makes sense that Hayward would specify the smallest size, to prevent smaller grains from entering the laterals.
Though just looking at the larger grains in the pictures posted here. A lot of those grains are much bigger than 1 mm. So I don't think the HTH sand has a #20 upper limit well enforced.
I'll write to HTH and Hayward on Monday and will post back if I learn anything useful. I totally agree with Duraleigh, it should not be this difficult to get things right.
Though just looking at the larger grains in the pictures posted here. A lot of those grains are much bigger than 1 mm. So I don't think the HTH sand has a #20 upper limit well enforced.
I'll write to HTH and Hayward on Monday and will post back if I learn anything useful. I totally agree with Duraleigh, it should not be this difficult to get things right.
I think that that's a good question for any product or service. The product manufacturer or service provider will always have an information advantage. To some degree, we have to trust that their product or service will be what it is supposed to be or do what it is supposed to do.
There are things you can do to help level the playing field. You can look for customer reviews online or other places. You can look for independent reviews from places like Consumer Reports. You can look for certifications from trusted organizations such as UL (Underwriters Laboratory), NSF etc.
You can purchase from known, trusted brands that have experience in the field.
You can research what the seller posts about what they sell. You can evaluate if their claims make sense and how professional and competent they seem.
And, the final test is trying the product or service. If it doesn't do what they claim, then you can contact them for resolution. Buying from reputable people who stand behind their products is important.
Of course, most people don't have the time or interest in doing hours of research before buying something like filter sand. Buying from good retailers can help because they will generally only carry products they believe in and they will stand behind them and make things right if necessary.