Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Copper Algaecide Mistake

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Copper Algaecide Mistake

    Ashamed and depressed is the way I feel at the moment. I mistakenly used copper algaecide with something telling me "metals are bad" in the back of my mind; but I didn't realize it until now. Now I come begging for advice on how to address it with a humble heart. If I get thru this, I will be a prophet for what this site teaches and not do anything without researching it.

    So, I used algaecide about 7 weeks ago and I'm just starting to see some "staining" of what I believe it a byproduct of using copper. There is a green stain above the water line on my white (I believe fiberglass) steps. That is the only trace in the pool as there are no other noticeable staining I could find. I didn't think anything of it as I have clean, clear water; only when my wife mentioned about some green stains in bathing suits did I realize that I could have an issue. It was also mentioned that my daughters had a slight green tint to their hair; so I'm committed to making this work.

    I've read about different sequesters and even processes like CuLator; I really am not sure where to go or start. But I do promise to take the advice given and have it documented here so others hopefully do not make my same mistakes.

    Thanks in advance to any help that is provided, I am deeply appreciative.

    Water Balance:
    FC - 6.5
    CC - 0
    pH - 7.6
    TA - 50
    CYA - (estimated 50 from last time)
    27K Vinyl IG Pool
    18x36, Aquarite with Goldline T-15 SWG,
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter, 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump w/ AO Smith B129 Motor
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    NW Louisiana

  2. Back To Top    #2
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,597

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    I would humbly suggest you start this journey by figuring out just how much Cu is in the water. Either purchase a test kit and measure it or have the pool store do it. Depending on how much Cu is in your water, the course of treatment could range from an ascorbic acid treatment plus sequestrant all the way up to draining the pool.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    Will pool stores be accurate for metals? If I get a test kit, will something like AquaChek Copper Pool Water Test Strips work?

    Thanks
    27K Vinyl IG Pool
    18x36, Aquarite with Goldline T-15 SWG,
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter, 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump w/ AO Smith B129 Motor
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    NW Louisiana

  4. Back To Top    #4
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,597

    Copper Algaecide Mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverJK View Post
    Will pool stores be accurate for metals? If I get a test kit, will something like AquaChek Copper Pool Water Test Strips work?

    Thanks
    I'd start with the pool store. Tell them you need them to specifically test for metals, Cu specifically, and that you don't care about the other results. Perhaps that will make them focus on the test better for improved accuracy. You could even try two different pool stores to get a comparison. If the results come back as zero or wildly conflicted, then I would consider buying a proper drop based test from Taylor such as the K-1730 (free copper test kit).


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    I'd start with the pool store. Tell them you need them to specifically test for metals, Cu specifically, and that you don't care about the other results. Perhaps that will make them focus on the test better for improved accuracy. You could even try two different pool stores to get a comparison. If the results come back as zero or wildly conflicted, then I would consider buying a proper drop based test from Taylor such as the K-1730 (free copper test kit).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I had a metal test today at the pool store and it resulted in zero copper detected. They explained this as no copper, that wasn't sequestered, was detected by the separate metal test. Now, although it seemed convincing, I'll still spring for another test to perform myself for reassurance.

    Other than the at home test, do I need to take any action?

    Thanks again!
    27K Vinyl IG Pool
    18x36, Aquarite with Goldline T-15 SWG,
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter, 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump w/ AO Smith B129 Motor
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    NW Louisiana

  6. Back To Top    #6
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,597

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    Have you added any kind of sequestrant? Depending on the strength of a sequestrant relative to the chemistry of the metal test, a sequestrant can interfere with a metal test.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    I have added nothing to the pool at all other than fill municipal water & SWG chlorination (and 1 bag of salt several weeks ago).
    27K Vinyl IG Pool
    18x36, Aquarite with Goldline T-15 SWG,
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter, 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump w/ AO Smith B129 Motor
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    NW Louisiana

  8. Back To Top    #8
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,597

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    Did you try doing the vitamin C tablet test in stain to confirm that the stains are in fact metallic? I did not see that in your original post (maybe I missed it?).


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    I have actually never attempted that. I hear it mentioned, but what exactly should I do? In other words, what's a recommended douce floor vitamin C that I can use in the test (pardon my ignorance).
    27K Vinyl IG Pool
    18x36, Aquarite with Goldline T-15 SWG,
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter, 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump w/ AO Smith B129 Motor
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    NW Louisiana

  10. Back To Top    #10
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,597

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverJK View Post
    I have actually never attempted that. I hear it mentioned, but what exactly should I do? In other words, what's a recommended douce floor vitamin C that I can use in the test (pardon my ignorance).
    Just grab some 1000mg vitamin c tablets from the drug store (don't need the rose hips in it ), stick them in a nylon and set them on the spot for 15 mins or so and see if the stain lightens up. If it does, it's a metal stain. It works most effectively with iron stains but also lightens copper too.

    It's not a sophisticated test, just a basic yes/no test. If it's metal, then there are more elaborate procedures for dealing with it.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    For copper stains that are not too old, citric acid works best, but the ascorbic acid should at least let you know if it's a metal stain.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    Ok, I didn't know the mg of Vitamin C that it needed to be; that does help. Here is the thing, what staining I have in my pool in only above the water line and I can wipe a good portion off by splashing water on my fingers and rubbing the spots. So what I'm saying is that me rubbing my fingers or rubbing Vitamin C may be inclusive results. Here is a picture of what I see; nothing below the waterline.

    27K Vinyl IG Pool
    18x36, Aquarite with Goldline T-15 SWG,
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter, 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump w/ AO Smith B129 Motor
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    NW Louisiana

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Moorpark, CA
    Posts
    171

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    I thought ascorbic acid is not recommended for copper, because it can actually make it darker.

    Also if the copper has already precipitated out of the water onto the pool surfaces, the copper water test could be zero.
    Michael

    20,000 gallon in-ground gunite/plaster pool (1992), attached spa with spillway, Pentair Superflo 1.5 HP pump, Smith booster pump for pool sweep, Pentair 2000 DE filter, Sta Rite Max-E-Therm 400 heater, Silencer Blower 2 HP for spa, Polaris 280 pool sweep.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    My Taylor K-1730 came in today and I tested the water and I was between .05 & .15ppm. I'm not exactly sure what that means other than there is some copper present; does it mean that more could be present?

    Thanks
    27K Vinyl IG Pool
    18x36, Aquarite with Goldline T-15 SWG,
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter, 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump w/ AO Smith B129 Motor
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    NW Louisiana

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    It means that is how much copper is still left in the water. That's not too high an amount unless the pH were to get above 8.0 so you should be OK. We usually get worried when we see copper above 0.3 ppm though even that can be managed if the pH is kept from getting higher. At 0.5 or 0.7 ppm, even normal (7.5) pH gets risky.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    So I have a few questions so that I can prepare myself with knowledge.

    When copper appears on the surfaces, is the copper physically on wall or is that just the result of the chemical reaction? For example, after the pool store read zero, I did scrub a lot of the green stuff off and it adhered to my bathing suit. Does that mean that I effectively removed some of the copper (once my bathing suit left the water)?

    Since this is a free copper test, does that mean that any copper that may still be contained within the algaecide (In solution I guess?) will not show up? I have not added any type of sequestering agent. I want to know if there is a possibility if my copper level will rise (I'm done adding any copper).

    Now when you say I'm OK, does that mean that the recommended course of action is to allow the copper to dilute naturally (backwashing my sand filter and adding water\rain)?

    Thanks and sorry for the silly questions.
    27K Vinyl IG Pool
    18x36, Aquarite with Goldline T-15 SWG,
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter, 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump w/ AO Smith B129 Motor
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    NW Louisiana

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    When copper stains or precipitates, it is a copper oxide or hydroxide which is why it forms more at higher pH. When it is a stain or precipitate, it won't show up in a water test because it's no longer in the water. So yes, if it stains your bathing suit and you take that out of the water you have removed some metal from the water. That's how some products like CuLator work except they bind to the metal ions directly rather than remove them from an oxide-hydroxide stain.

    Supposedly the copper test is supposed to measure copper weakly bound such as that in an algaecide that may have a sort of metal sequestrant in it. So in theory, your copper level shouldn't rise more at least from the algaecide you used.

    However, what is strange is that your stain is above the water line. So maybe that is occurring because it gets splashed, the water evaporates, and when it does the pH rises and the copper concentrates and precipitates as a stain. So it's possible that this might still occur some with your water even with the low copper level, though I haven't heard of that happening before at such a low level. If you find more staining, you might get some citric acid to wipe it off. If it keeps happening, then you can look at removing the last of the copper from your water by either a metal sequestrant (but you have to keep buying that) or using CuLator.

    So I think you can just have the copper dilute over time. I think you got lucky in not overdosing with the copper.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Copper Algaecide Mistake

    Thank you so much for the extremely detailed answers. I believe this has helped me tremendously in knowing how to address the issue.
    27K Vinyl IG Pool
    18x36, Aquarite with Goldline T-15 SWG,
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter, 1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump w/ AO Smith B129 Motor
    Taylor 2006 Test Kit
    NW Louisiana

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •