Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38

Thread: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

  1. Back To Top    #1
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Question Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    I hope that the multiple topics on similar but slightly different topics isn't a problem... but I'm wondering if the diagram I've constructed will work. The lines are labelled the same in each photo:

    A = deep end line (currently a vac line)
    B = shallow end return line
    C = skimmer line


    The above is the original configuration, with two shutoff valves for the skimmer and vac line. Here, there is just a single return.



    This is is me getting choppy choppy before I had a proper plan laid out. Although not labelled here, the lines are A, B, & C from left to right. I think it'd be easier to tie them together this way.


    Here is what I want to do: I'd love to be able to ditch the shutoff valves and configure the 3 way valves such that I can have both A&B or just B as return lines, while also being able to change the suction side to have A&C or just C as suction lines (obviously I wouldn't want both the suction and return valves open to line A at the same time...)

    Is this possible to configure the 3-ways in this fashion, and would I need to get a special valve that would allow me to re-configure how the ports operate?

    I could have tried to do this with three shutoff valves, but doing so would have gotten real messy and might have cramped what little space I have available
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    That should work. Any of the 3 way valves should work. You can take the top off the valve and turn them if needed.

    Btw, a little better to have the common pipe on the middle port.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  3. Back To Top    #3
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    Thanks for looking this over!

    Is there any sort of sweep to these valves, such that they won't flow through them, side to side, like water would flow through a PVC T fitting, without interruption? I'm just curious why it's preferable to use the middle port? Considering the "normal" flow would be straight through on the skimmer line, it would seem to make sense to use a straight through flow. I'm a total noob to all this though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Any recommendation on either Pentair or Jandy 1.5"/2" valves? I've got a pair of each in my Amazon cart and want to order them today so I can get things up and running again ASAP (probably will overnight them.)
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  4. Back To Top    #4
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    Specifically, I'm looking at the Jandy 4715 and the Pentair 263037 valves. There's about a $15 difference between the two. Is there much of a reliability difference between them?
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    The Jandy have mechanical stops to prevent you from closing the middle port, unless you take it apart and adjust things. You can get better control of partial flow from both when the middle port is the common one. Although it would work the way you have it down too.

    What size pipe are you using? I would suggest 2" pipe and getting the 2/2.5 valves. Either brand is fine. I got the Pentair.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  6. Back To Top    #6
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?



    Here's how it would look if I installed the valves the proper way. Wouldn't all those 90's create resistance (head?) in the line, reducing the flow? I could see the use of having flow control between the two returns (A&B), but the added 90's could make that a headache (plus it means more joints in the line, which I would think means more potential leak points.) Depending on the size of the valves, I could potentially put the valve between the 90's on the A&B lines, and have an additional 90 pointing towards the return port from the multivalve.

    The 3 way on the skimmer line (C) could be done this way, so long as I can get the flex to bend a little bit more, while keeping all the pipes parallel to each other as possible. I just don't see any use for having flow control between A&C. I either want only the skimmer (sucking debris from the top) or only the vac line (vacuum line for the bottom of the pool.) I likely wouldn't install the valve in the manner shown above.

    As far as piping goes, it's all 1.5" line installed to the pad. It'll be a few years before we tear up concrete and add extra lines, but for now, the flex pipes all run to plumbing on a single wall - and that wall is on the grass side of the pool.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    For your application there is nothing wrong with doing it your original way. I would recommend you still use the larger valves and run 2 inch from the flex to the equipment.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  8. Back To Top    #8
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    What good would running 2" do from the valves to the multipart valve, if the MPV only accepts 1.5"? This is what I have, a Pentair SM10-3 sand MPV:



    1.5-Inch Pentair Side Mount Multiport Valve SM 10-3 - Swimming Pool Filter Valves - Amazon.com
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    Would I use these to screw in (the 1.5" male FPT side) to the MPV, and then use 2" PVC connections to the equipment?

    What about the pump connections? The pump has threaded connections, and I believe the unions that came with it were threaded as well. We used some sort of dual threaded adapter to connect the unions to the pump.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    The larger pipe at the equipment lowers the head lost through all of the turns in the plumbing. You can just use whatever adapters are required to switch sizes between the 2 inch in the 1.5 inch threaded . Those in the link would work but they seem ridiculously overpriced compared to what I've seen in hardware stores.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  11. Back To Top    #11
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    I guess that makes sense, and allows for changing the 1.5" flex over to 2" pipe (either flex or standard PVC) down the road (probably going to do a full rebuild in about 3-4 years when the liner needs to be replaced.)
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    Nevermind.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    It's done for now. I'm told that I might have a little problem with the way I put the pipes up higher than the pump though.

    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    Sigh... it seems as if this design did not work out at all, so I'm doing a chop and drop on the vertical lines such that the valves are below the pump inlet. Going to have to do a hack job with Sch40 flexible PVC lines to get this to work as a short-term solution to get through the season. I had hoped this was going to be permanent...

    IMG_1648.jpg

    The red lined pipes are going to be replaced with flex PVC. I'm praying that changing this around works out and that the new (warranty) motor will work just fine.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Buckeye AZ
    Posts
    807

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    I'm just curious, in that photo you just posted, the pipe closest to the camera (with the T), has two closed valves on it, so it wouldn't be pulling or returning water. NOthing would be happening on that line. Were the valves not set at the time of this picture?
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
    Hayward DE filter, 2HP Ecostar VSP, ProLogic PS-4, GVA actuators
    Cal Pools Wave Force Plus (wall return jets plus 2 floor pop-ups), Venturi Skimmer
    Water sheer, 2 wok pots, bubbler stem on the baja step
    ColorLogic Mutlicolor LED lamp. Taylor 2006+speed stir

  16. Back To Top    #16
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    The valves are set such that what's closed is the pipe closest to the front of the picture. I turned both valves such that the "deadhead" position isn't in the usual spot, to allow straight-thru flow in what should have been the most usual operation mode.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Agent99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    688

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    Mitch,

    What was wrong with your replumb? Looks okay to me. Your lines aren't dramatically higher than the pump...shouldn't be a big deal. What happened?

    Did you run things and find problems?
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

  18. Back To Top    #18
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    The pump won't prime, and won't even come close to getting primed. It's possible that I simply have a bad pump (warranty replacement is on its way) or that I just can't suck that much water fast enough to get up and over with 1.5" flex PVC underground going from these pipes I ran to the pool.

    I tried a Drain King from this plumbing back to the pool and from the pool back to the pump. It flows, but not very hard. I'm not sure if that's to be expected? I don't suspect a blockage in the pipe any longer, as the pressure with the Drain King seems the same to the skimmer as it is to the deep end return.

    I am picking up an ammeter shortly, to check the amperage load. If anything, things are pointing to this as being a suspect. I'm not chopping up anything else until I can rule out electrical and/or a bad pump.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Agent99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    688

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    I see. In your original configuration, it appears the pump was higher or level with the suction lines.

    Making the suction line going into the pump larger can sometimes help. If you have 1.5" all around...making that line into the pump 2" or larger can help things. Or if 2", make it 2.5".

    That may not be a viable option for you but something to consider.
    ----Chris----
    25k IG/Spa Figure 8, 18x36, Pebble Sheen Blue Granite, Sta-Rite S8M150 Cartridge Filter, Pentair 460805 400k BTU Heater & 011018 IntelliFlo VarSpd
    Liquidator, Fafco Solar Heat, Polaris PB460 Booster Pump w/280 cleaner, Katchaleaf Cover, TF100 Test Kit, FAKE MAIN DRAIN

  20. Back To Top    #20
    MitchRyan912's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    314

    Re: Is it possible, with 3-way (diverter) valves, to make a line a vac OR return?

    The original config was indeed about the same level as the suction lines. To get to this area where I took those pics meant that I was often tripping on the pipes and stepping on them, so I wanted to dig below them so I could bury them and stub up some 2" pipes like I often see in some neat looking installs.

    All the pipe pictured is 2" to/from the pump and the filter.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •