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Thread: High Phosphates and new SWG system

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    High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Guys,

    I have just installed Breeze 540 SWG System on my pool pad, but I have not powered it on yet. I am a first summer pool owner, still going through learning curve.

    Currently my pool has a little bit of mustard algae on the walls that I am working on addressing it. Yellow Treat is coming. Visually pool water is clear and I use my pool on regular basis.

    Leslieís ran water analysis and the results are:
    - Free Chlorine 1 ppm (low)
    - Total Chlorine 1 ppm (low)
    - Calcium 540 (high)
    - CYA 99 ppm
    - Total Alkalinity TA 140 (high)
    - pH 7.7
    - Copper and Iron 0
    - TDS 3100
    - Phosphates 1500 (high)

    My salt system wants TA in range on 80-100. I will use Muriatic acid to lower TA from 140 to ~90, my pH should go down which will help me fight my mustard algae problem.
    I will raise salt level to ~4000ppm once I figure out how to measure it.
    My salt system wants CYA in 30ppm range, but I donít see how I can lower my CYA from 99ppm to 30ppm. I stopped using stabilized chlorine as of yesterday once I found out my CYA levels.

    Is it safe for Salt System Equipment to start operating it with Phosphates at 1500ppm and CYA at 99ppm?
    I plan addressing Phosphates with PHOSfree in 3 weeks, but I plan bring Salt system online in 3 days.
    ~23K gallon pool + spa
    Breeze 540 SGS
    1.5hp pump, 60 ft^2 DE filter
    LAARS LX heater (not functioning)

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    I'm sorry to say phosphates are not your problem. Ignore TA for now as its inconsequential. High CYA is your problem. Most pool stores show 99 when the CYA is too high for them to test.

    What you really need is your own test kit and get some reliable numbers. Pool Store testing is notoriously bad.

    I recommend the TF100 from TFTestkits.net and as I see a SLAM in your future pick up the XL option.

    The phosfree and yellow out are wasted money so I would cancel or return them. They will not solve your problem.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    What he said^^^^

    Check out Pete's posts. Here's one High alkalinity, conditioner.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Thanks guys. The mom and pop shot tested my CYA at 70ppm Leslie's at 99ppm. Just ordered TF100 system with Salt Strips - hopefully arrives soon.

    Is there any issue if I run my Salt System with high CYA? Besides partially draining the pool, is there any way to lower CYA levels?
    ~23K gallon pool + spa
    Breeze 540 SGS
    1.5hp pump, 60 ft^2 DE filter
    LAARS LX heater (not functioning)

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    CYA won't hurt your salt system.

    The only real ways to reduce CYA are drain/refill or pool reverse osmosis (expensive) which is available in many areas of CA due to your water sutuation
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Quote Originally Posted by samotlietuvis View Post
    Thanks guys. The mom and pop shot tested my CYA at 70ppm Leslie's at 99ppm. Just ordered TF100 system with Salt Strips - hopefully arrives soon.

    Is there any issue if I run my Salt System with high CYA? Besides partially draining the pool, is there any way to lower CYA levels?
    If Mom or Pop was right, 70 CYA is ideal for a SWG system.

    The problem is getting the FC level high enough to kill the algae and maintaining it there for several days. If you're at 70, it's do-able. If CYA is off the scale, forget it.

    And just so you know.... the manufacturer specifically says algae must be treated before using Phosfree. Otherwise you end up with a pool full of milk. View the last lines of the Instructions
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Do not add the yellow treat to the pool as you will have another set of problems afterwards. Once we get some real numbers to work with using the TF-100 we can then guide you through the process to get rid of any type of algae.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Yellow treat is already paid for and coming but I will not put it in; I did not buy PHOSfree and will hold off on it. I will start adding salt to get it to 4000ppm so its ready for my salt system.

    Water is a problem in Southern California. They just went to tiered system and I am hitting tier 3. My front lawn is coming out at the end of the year - then I can consider replacing some of pool water.
    I will look into pool reverse osmosis. The reverse osmosis system I use for my drinking water generates a lot of waste water.
    ~23K gallon pool + spa
    Breeze 540 SGS
    1.5hp pump, 60 ft^2 DE filter
    LAARS LX heater (not functioning)

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Well, lets cross our fingers and hope,the mom and pop testing is closer to the real numbers. Like Richard said, 70 we can live with. It will take a lot of chlorine to totally eradicate your algae at 70, but the water police won't be staking out your house.

    Just like your home system. Pool RO creates waste water, but much less than a drain/refill.

    You are moving in the right direction - as Marcus Lemonis says, trust the process.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Added two 40lb bags of salt, 32 fl-oz of Muriatic acid, and 2 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine.

    Got new results:
    FAC 3
    TAC 3
    CYA 80ppm Leslies, 75 ppm mom and pop shop
    Salt at 2800ppm (added 1 more bag afterwards so now it should be 3000ppm)
    pH 7.7
    TA 90

    My test kit is on the way – should be here this Friday.

    I believe my salt system is ready to be turned on this evening .

    Water is crystal clear, a bit of mustard algae is still around clinging to the walls. Looked at the SLAM method and it would be a lot of Chlorine ($$) to kill it. Would it be easier to kill the algae in the late fall time when temperature drops? My pool will become shaded by the house at that time – so more chlorine should stay in.
    ~23K gallon pool + spa
    Breeze 540 SGS
    1.5hp pump, 60 ft^2 DE filter
    LAARS LX heater (not functioning)

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Quote Originally Posted by samotlietuvis View Post
    Added two 40lb bags of salt, 32 fl-oz of Muriatic acid, and 2 gallons of 10% liquid chlorine.

    Got new results:
    FAC 3
    TAC 3
    CYA 80ppm Leslies, 75 ppm mom and pop shop
    Salt at 2800ppm (added 1 more bag afterwards so now it should be 3000ppm)
    pH 7.7
    TA 90

    My test kit is on the way – should be here this Friday.

    I believe my salt system is ready to be turned on this evening .

    Water is crystal clear, a bit of mustard algae is still around clinging to the walls. Looked at the SLAM method and it would be a lot of Chlorine ($$) to kill it. Would it be easier to kill the algae in the late fall time when temperature drops? My pool will become shaded by the house at that time – so more chlorine should stay in.
    Is it better to remove a skin cancer now, or wait a few months?
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Is it better to remove a skin cancer now, or wait a few months?
    Richard, I hear you. Filter is running at 11 psi now. If I do the SLAM, I need to clean the filter again. Just ran my salt system in boost mode for 5 hours today. I could smell the Chlorine in the air at the end. Based on salt system capacity I will be producing ~0.3lb of Chlorine per day. Maybe in a month my mustard algae will just die off without SLAMing?
    ~23K gallon pool + spa
    Breeze 540 SGS
    1.5hp pump, 60 ft^2 DE filter
    LAARS LX heater (not functioning)

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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    A SWG has a limited output. It is designed to maintain chlorine level in a clean balanced pool. It doesn't produce it at a rate sufficient to combat an algae outbreak. It also produces a finite amount of chlorine before the generating cell must be replaced ($$). Trying to use it while you have algae is a waste of its capacity and your investment. We tell people to turn off their SWG and fight an algae bloom with bleach or liquid chlorine (which ever is cheapest where you live). I would suggest that you shut down the SWG and just add a gallon of bleach a day (1/2 morning, 1/2 evening) until your test kit arrives. Once we have dependable test results we can guide you through get all algae cleared up and the water perfectly balanced. While waiting I also suggest you spend some time reading Pool School, there is a wealth of information to be had there.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Measured my CYA with my own Taylor test kit, and it is at 100ppm or slightly more . Will be replacing 1/2 of my water in the winter. We suppose to have super el nino this winter - maybe it will just rain in .
    ~23K gallon pool + spa
    Breeze 540 SGS
    1.5hp pump, 60 ft^2 DE filter
    LAARS LX heater (not functioning)

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Quote Originally Posted by samotlietuvis View Post
    Measured my CYA with my own Taylor test kit, and it is at 100ppm or slightly more . Will be replacing 1/2 of my water in the winter. We suppose to have super el nino this winter - maybe it will just rain in .
    Well, any gutter downspouts near the pool? I harvested water from one of mine for close to a year to help get my CYA down.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Well, any gutter downspouts near the pool? I harvested water from one of mine for close to a year to help get my CYA down.
    There is one rain water overflow reservoir 2 houses down from me (100ft or so). Unfortunately, in Cali one cannot legally harvest rain water. I am certain my neighbors would not like me snaking 100ft hose on their front lawn. Hopefully it rains a lot
    ~23K gallon pool + spa
    Breeze 540 SGS
    1.5hp pump, 60 ft^2 DE filter
    LAARS LX heater (not functioning)

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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Quote Originally Posted by samotlietuvis View Post
    Unfortunately, in Cali one cannot legally harvest rain water.
    This is no longer true, at least not for harvesting rainwater falling on your property, such as that from your roof collected through gutters. See this link for the legal change in 2012. Even before this legal change, you could still have used the water from your roof legally if you obtained a permit from the State Water Resources Control Board (SWRCB), but now this is no longer necessary. Quite frankly, no one was enforcing the permit requirement on private property from rooftop/gutter water collection anyway (it was really an oversight in the original SWRCB authority -- they meant more to control large water-diversion such as someone constructing a reservoir or dam on their property or diverting a stream, etc.).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: High Phosphates and new SWG system

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek View Post
    This is no longer true, at least not for harvesting rainwater falling on your property, such as that from your roof collected through gutters. See this link for the legal change in 2012. Even before this legal change, you could still have used the water from your roof legally if you obtained a permit from the State Water Resources Control Board (SWRCB), but now this is no longer necessary. Quite frankly, no one was enforcing the permit requirement on private property from rooftop/gutter water collection anyway (it was really an oversight in the original SWRCB authority -- they meant more to control large water-diversion such as someone constructing a reservoir or dam on their property or diverting a stream, etc.).
    I see. Good to know. Somebody mentioned at work that I could not collect rain water. Hope it rains a lot this season
    ~23K gallon pool + spa
    Breeze 540 SGS
    1.5hp pump, 60 ft^2 DE filter
    LAARS LX heater (not functioning)

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