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Thread: Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

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    Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Hi Guys / Gals!

    Back for another season, and of course we have problems right outta the gate. Last year i had issues w/ my ports always slinging sediment and other **** back into the pool immediately after a backwash. So this year i figured i'd take a look inside the sand filter and see if i can stir the sand around or replace it if necessary. Well, i unscrewed the V-Clamp (think that's what it's called) and didn't even think far enough ahead to notice that my pipes are not going to allow this to happen so easily. And of course now i can't get the v-clamps back on as the top part has raised up and i can't get it to go back down far enough to put the clamps back on. Does anyone have any suggestions, or am i going to have to get the hack saw and cut / replace PVC pipe?

    BTW, is there any way to tell what size the sand filter is? All it says on it is that it's a W Cooper Ranger Series Sand Filter.

    [attachment=1:h5mi8g39]IMG_0017.JPG[/attachment:h5mi8g39]

    [attachment=0:h5mi8g39]IMG_0016.JPG[/attachment:h5mi8g39]
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    35+ year old 16 x 30 oval, depth 4 ft to 8 ft, in ground concrete pool approx 17,000 gallons-using BBB method

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    Re: Please help! Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Have you tried to remove the "repair union" on the crooked pipe? (it's the one on the left in your pic) That should certainly come off by unscrewing the large rings on either end.

    Personally, I would dismantle your entire pvc piping to the filter (or more, if it's as crooked as what shows in the pics) and get it straightened out and relieve the pressure on those fittings. You are asking for problems year after year with piping that has constant lateral pressure.

    Nevertheless, if you choose to leave it, unscrew that repair union and see if you can get your multiport reseated..
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Please help! Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Wow, yea i see what you mean by looking at the pic. I think it's just a funky angle that i took the shot and maybe the multiport shifted a bit now that it's loose, but it doesn't actually look like that. Also, i figure I am now at this point, and I want to probably replace the sand so i need to get the lid off. i guess that pipe that i have the arrow pointing to needs to be cut and replaced. Should i just repair it with another "repair union"? I hope it's ok to leave that gap in the filter for a day or two...

    Can anyone point me to a helpful tutorial on changing filter sand (no luck in "pool school") and how to determine my filter requirements?
    35+ year old 16 x 30 oval, depth 4 ft to 8 ft, in ground concrete pool approx 17,000 gallons-using BBB method

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: Please help! Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Keep in mind that you can still circulate the pool with the multiport set to recirculate should you have to add any chemicals, and you can vacuum to waste if necessary.

    Is there still a sticker on your filter? Looks like a Meteor. If so, you can measure the diameter to figure out how much sand you need:

    18" = 150lbs
    20" = 200
    22" = 200
    26" = 225
    30" = 350

    If there's a part number on the band or anywhere else on the body of the filter itself (not the valve), that would help us know what type it is for sure.

    To change the sand you take the old sand out and put the new sand in!

    I find a shop vac is usually the easiest way to pull the old sand out. Let it drain first so it's not so wet. Don't be tempted to tip it over and dump it all out.
    Once the sand is out, inspect the laterals to be sure they're not cracked. Clean them out as best you can. Then fill the tank halfway with water (drain plug back in), make sure the standpipe is properly seated and centered otherwise the multiport won't go back on properly, plug or cover the hole at the top of the sand pipe so it doesn't get sand in it and then start pouring. As you go be sure the lateral assembly and stand pipe stay in place. There's a part called a sand guide (p/n 155051) that will do that for you, but most people throw that away after they fill it the first time. If you buy your sand at a local store they might have a spare one you can have or borrow.

    A quick google of "Change Filter Sand" will pull up a few tutorials.

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    Re: Please help! Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    thanks spishex! Are you telling me that i can run the pool pump while that gap is present? The multiport is currently set to backwash, but the pump is off of course. Since i cant get the multiport seated back on right now, i can't change it to recirculate, can I?

    Also, this is what i have exactly.
    http://www.cooperpool.com/products/ranger_t-series.html
    It has boxes on the front to say what size it is, but no check marks...

    The diameter (at the fattest point) of this sand filter is like 76"
    35+ year old 16 x 30 oval, depth 4 ft to 8 ft, in ground concrete pool approx 17,000 gallons-using BBB method

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    Re: Please help! Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    There is a local guy in my area that only charges $50 to change sand in my area. He is responsible if he tears up anything so that is how I change my sand. One of the local pool stores recommended him.

    You could check in to this in your area and watch what he does the first time and then you will know how to do it the next time you need to change your sand.

    Susan
    18x33 AGP, BAQUAPURE 200 lb sandfilter, 2 1/2hp Workhorse pump (2 speed)

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    Re: Please help! Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by dolemite77
    thanks spishex! Are you telling me that i can run the pool pump while that gap is present? The multiport is currently set to backwash, but the pump is off of course. Since i cant get the multiport seated back on right now, i can't change it to recirculate, can I?

    The diameter (at the fattest point) of this sand filter is like 76"
    Yes, you can change the valve with the gap there. As long as you don't start the pump with it on filter or backwash, the water never enters the tank. It just goes into the multiport and back out.

    I think 76" is your circumference(measurement around the filter). You need the diameter, which is the measurement across the widest point. Diameter=circumference/3.14 <-----using that formula, I come up with about 20" dia. for your filter. According to Spishex's post, that means you have a 200 lb sand filter.

    Also, if you do decide to cut the pipe, I's cut both of them before any repair work and add a union on the input and output of the multiport. That way you'll be able to simply unscrew each union and take the multiport off.

    HTH,
    Adam
    18' x 42" Intex Easyset Pool, with 16' x 52" deep end in the middle. Approx. 5500 Gal.
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1 HP, 100# Jacuzzi Brand Sand Filter(Piped underground so it looks nice) 8)
    3 - 2' x 20' Solar Pool Heater Panels(roof mounted)
    Goin' on 9 summers...NOBODY thought it would last this long.
    Buried Portable Spa sharing pumps and water with pool (Almost complete project)

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    Re: Please help! Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Yeah, that's not a meteor but the tank size (21") still calls for 200lbs.

    You can run it on either bypass setting (recirculate or waste).

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    Re: Please help! Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Looks like you may have a little plumbing to do to get into that filter to change the sand If you'd be so kind to post a couple more pics with an overview of the connections to and from the filter, we can give you a list of what fittings you'll want to pick up.

    I'm going to reiterate my standing advice to replace the bottom 1/4 of the sand with pea gravel (I have my reasons, if you want them, but don't want your thread to turn into an argument over 'to pea (gravel) or not to pea' )

    Tim (Spishex) gave you a good, clear and concise tutorial on changing sand !

    My heartfelt well wishes on getting this project done in a timely manner so that you can get down to just enjoying the pool!
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Please help! Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    I agree with Ted (waste) about using the pea gravel under the sand. Listen to his advice.

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    Re: Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Alright guys thanks so much for all your help! I attached a couple more pics below. I'm thinking i will make the cut along the vertical section of pipe 3. There is not enough room to do it on the horizontal section. Pipe 1 is not an issue because it is not a fixed pipe. Pipe 2 already has a union joint.

    So I purchased 8 bags of Pavestone Filter Sand from Home Depot. There was no weight on the bags, only volume. Each bag is 0.5 cu. ft. So how much cu. ft.?

    Also, i most certainly will do the pea pebbles after the recommendations, but may i ask why?

    [attachment=1:2j0us9i6]Picture 001.jpg[/attachment:2j0us9i6]

    [attachment=0:2j0us9i6]Picture 002.jpg[/attachment:2j0us9i6]
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    35+ year old 16 x 30 oval, depth 4 ft to 8 ft, in ground concrete pool approx 17,000 gallons-using BBB method

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Those are 50lb bags. Sand is ~100lbs / cubic foot.

    Covering the laterals in pea gravel allows for more even flow around the bottom of the filter which gives you more efficient backwashing. It becomes more necessary the bigger the filter.

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    Re: Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    If anyone can get back to me quickly on this one, i'll owe ya one. I'm right in the middle of this project right now and have a question. The pipe is cut, union joint in place ready to be reassembled. As you can see in the new pic, i have the top pulled up a bit more, but it is to the rim with water - no sand in sight. I unscrewed the drain at the bottom of the filter, but it's a slow trickle. Am I doing everything right up to this point?

    Also, once the water is drained, do i pull the top up and out of the hole completely??? Will the laterals allow for me to do this, or do i have to get the old sand out and put the new sand in with the top piece still in the hole? I am trying to be cautious so as not to break anything such as the laterals.... Thanks again everyone!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    35+ year old 16 x 30 oval, depth 4 ft to 8 ft, in ground concrete pool approx 17,000 gallons-using BBB method

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Remove the multiport completely. It looks like the stand pipe is coming up with it, so the sand may be pretty low. The valve should separate from the pipe (it's not glued or threaded in). Fully loaded it should only be about 2/3 full. If you have to pull the lateral assembly out you'll need to unscrew most, if not all, of the laterals inside the tank unless they fold up (don't think they do on your filter).

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    Re: Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    thanks a ton man! I'm gonna go back out (even though it's dark) and see if the water is drained out or not yet... so i'm guessing i can not turn the pump back on to recirculate now that all the pipes are open - true assumption? Thanks again man!!!
    35+ year old 16 x 30 oval, depth 4 ft to 8 ft, in ground concrete pool approx 17,000 gallons-using BBB method

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    Re: Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Quote Originally Posted by dolemite77
    thanks a ton man! I'm gonna go back out (even though it's dark) and see if the water is drained out or not yet... so i'm guessing i can not turn the pump back on to recirculate now that all the pipes are open - true assumption? Thanks again man!!!
    Don't turn the pump on with the unions unattached, unless you want to partially drain the pool

    Glad you're making progress on this! Good job getting that nonpressure coupling out of the system
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    so i had to cut the pipe inside of the tank because i couldn't get the laterals released. They were screwed in from the top and bottom. I finally got everything out of there and am ready to refill. First of all, i hope it is ok to reconnect that internal pipe w/ another union joint. Is it ok for union joints to be submerged in water for long periods of time? Also, do i want to put the internal pipe and laterals back in place and let them rest at the bottom, then put the pea gravel and sand in on top of it, or do i put the pea gravel in then rest the laterals on that, then the sand?
    35+ year old 16 x 30 oval, depth 4 ft to 8 ft, in ground concrete pool approx 17,000 gallons-using BBB method

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: Situation with Sand Filter (with pics)

    Put the lateral assembly back in first then cover it with the gravel.

    I'd use a regular coupling on the standpipe just so to make it less complicated and you may need to shave a 1/4" or so off the top so the multiport goes back on properly.

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