Helping a friend out

[Catanzaro]

I am helping a friend out who has many issues with her pool. Can only tell you this. She had been using an algaecide (last year), powder chlorine now instead of a floating canister with pucks, as the pool company recommended no more stabilizer (Wow, a little too late). She put CYA reducer about 2 weeks ago (Have no idea if it even worked). Pool Company stated CYA was 80 before the CYA reducer.

The pool store told her she has metals in her water. She has not put any chemicals that were purchased to take care of the metals. Here is the information on a 18*36 vinyl pool, 8 feet deep with a heater. Gallon size is estimated at 20,000 gallons. She has a Sand Filter.



As you can see in the picture, when I tested for chlorine and PH, the chlorine was faint (yellow) and the PH was yellow? Do not know this one as my PH is always within range.

Question: Could the FC and PH be off because of metals in the water?

I also performed a diluted CYA test with 50% Water and her CYA is 140 (which she can not believe).
FC with the extended kit is 1 and CC is 1.5
TA was a weird color, so I stopped there. The color did not go to green with the 5 drops, but more red as I was adding the reagent, and I stopped, tested again as I knew something was wrong. Do not know where TA is because colors were off. Did not test for CH.

After reading the extended test kit directions, I realized that this is possibly the cause.

Add 5 drops of R-0008 and swirl to mix. The solution should turn green or blue. If the sample turns red, pink, or yellow, you are done, your TA is zero, and your PH is very very low (4.5 or lower).
Questions:

.. What is next (I recommended replacing enough water to lower the CYA down to 60) to a manageable level.
... How much chlorine should she put in the pool? Or nothing until water replacement and CYA is under control?
... Can the PH test be off with metals in her water? The pool store tested for metals and they were present (Although, I do not have any print outs in front of me)
... Did the TA test go bad again because of metals?
... Is the CYA test accurate given the metals in the water?

I recommending highly that she order a TF-100 test kit and join the forum. At this point, I am just curious myself and will try to help. I believe that the water replacement is a must.

Under these conditions, is it SAFE to SWIM?

 

[Richard320]

She switched from trichlor pucks to dichlor powder most likely. It is also acidic and adds CYA, as your test proves.

No, not safe to swim. The high CC and the super low pH will no doubt irritate skin and cause burning eyes.

There's no point treating anything since a large water replacement is in the works. One you've removed enough to get CYA down to something useful, then refill and let it mix and proceed with adjusting pH and TA. Lastly, deal with a SLAM. At least a day's worth. If it passes the OCLT after the first night, great. If not, keep going.

If she has metals in her water, it likely came from her frog pack or corroding the innards of the heater with that acidic water. Check out the pictures in this thread: Maintain your chemicals correctly

 

[Divin Dave]

Hi,

If she is going to replace water to get the CYA down, then wait until after that before carrying on with balancing out any of the chemicals.

No it isnt safe to swim. With pH that low, its very corrosive and is likely effecting other tests as well and will likely be very uncomfortable on the skin and may also cause eye irritation.

very very low pH will turn yellow.
You really need to get the pH up and get the TA up asap.

the low pH and fc are not because of metals. The ph is so low because using tabs and granular chlorine which are both trichlor are very acidic, and that has what has driven down the pH to such low levels. Its also why the CYA is so high. BTW, I belive your 140 rather than the stores 80.

Once you get the pH up, and the TA to at least 50, then it would be safe to swim, but obviously there are other issues going on that will need to be dealt with soon.

If the CYA is 140, then Im sure you know in order to get that down, some water needs replaced.
CC's of 1.5 are an indicator of perhaps on the verge of an algae outbreak. Recommend to do a OCLT to verify the overnight chlorine loss.

FC obvously need to be raised. its low for probably a couple reasons.
1. Bio Active. Part of the bioactive treament is to force the FC pretty much zero. That needs to happen because the "acive ingredient" in bioactive is bacteria, and FC would prevent it from working.

And if that happend, then algae probably started to grow which is also eating up FC.
If your friend want to swim right away, add enough liquid chlorine to get to about 10-12 ppm and swim away.

The metals in the water are likely because of the algaecide shes been using. Most algaecides contain copper. There could also be metals in there because of iron or copper pipes in the heater system or fill water system, or if its filled from a water well.

hope this helps,

 

[Catanzaro]

Thanks Richard320 & Divin Dave:

This is why I preach TFP and the TF-100 Test Kit. I will pass this information on to my friend. The testing is accurate and the information from TFP is priceless. This also allows me to learn what is going on.

 

[Divin Dave]

good luck with helping get her fixed up.

Thanks Richard320 & Divin Dave:

This is why I preach TFP and the TF-100 Test Kit. I will pass this information on to my friend. The testing is accurate and the information from TFP is priceless. This also allows me to learn what is going on.

 

[Catanzaro]

Question on algae in this pool. I am starting to see Algae in the pool. PH is still low and we are adding more Borax to increase the levels to 7.2. The CYA is still probably at around 130. Signs of algae on floor (spots here and there). I brushed the floor today. FC 0 CC 1.5 PH 6.8 TA around 60 CYA 130 CH (Not tested) She is in the process of draining and filling to reduce CYA to around 60, maybe 70.

QUESTION(S) :How many gallons of 8.25% should she add on a daily basis to keep the algae in check from getting worse? Adding another 3 gallons of 8.25% each day, but the FC is not holding. The SLAM process can not happen until the CYA is reduced, which could take a while. She can live without the pool for a few days. Should she use any other type of product to control algae? If so, what type and where should she purchase it?

Considering my levels are super perfect, I do not use any other products. She will be registering for the forum today and hopefully ordering one of the recommended test kits. Thank you for your assistance.

 

[Texas Splash]

After the partial drain and refill, you'll need to do the following:
1 - Verify new CYA reading
2 - Verify new FC reading
3 - Verify new PH reading

Adjust PH first to 7.2 in preparation for a SLAM. Once you've re-tested and know PH is at 7.2, start your SLAM by taking the FC to the appropriate level as noted on the Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart. The Poolmath calculator can help you determine how much is needed based on your pool size and "NOW" versus "TARGET" numbers.

 

[Catanzaro]

Thank you for your quick response - Texas Splash

The drain may take a while before CYA is reduced. Should my friend continue to add bleach daily, for the next week to keep algae in check or just drain/fill and not worry about any bleach until the SLAM starts?

 

[Mike1162]

I'd keep adding bleach or the pool will get real nasty real fast. That'll just make it harder to get clear once the slam is started. I'm assuming it'll be a partial drain/fill.

 

[Catanzaro]

Yes, 50% of the water must be drained and filled. I really feel bad for my friend as last year around this time we had a conversation about TFP. Both pool companies near us have messed up her pool. Each gallon of 8.25% will bring the FC level up 4 ppm and rasie salt by 6.6%, based on 20K gallon pool.

Considering CYA is through the roof, and the SLAM is not feasible at this point, would 3 gallons daily added at night with filter on 24/7 help stall the algae? That would add 12 ppm of FC daily. The CC is at 1.5. The FC this morning was "zero". or should she add 4 or 5 gallons to bring FC to 16-20 daily?

 

[Mike1162]

Yeah, how much is the million dollar question. Since FC is currently zero I'd add a few gallons right now & a few more tonight. The target level would be in the 16 - 20 range you mentioned but I don't know if that'd be throwing $$ down the drain.

 

[Texas Splash]

That is the awkward part of this right now ... not knowing. If your friend is currently draining, then any chemicals in the water are going right down the tubes. Draining can be slow sometimes. Has your friend considered renting a sump pump to expedite the drain? Or at least use 2-3 hoses at once to help siphon water out quicker? I don't recall your friend's exact plumbing set-up, but backwashing to waste from a main drain helps as well (if available). Just some thoughts.

Until the drain is completed and both FC and CYA confirmed, adding bleach with any specific target (and performing a SLAM) will seem futile. Certainly your call though. You have to press-on with what's available.

 

[Catanzaro]

Yes, she has a main drain. I do not want to take responsibility of the water draining 2-3 feet down and the liner wrinkling or walls moving because of pressure. I know when pool companies replace liners here in NJ, they set up a temporary pool in the yard and drain the water out of the pool in about 1 hour (this is what I heard). Then quickly they move through the liner process, take wrinkles out, remove air and start filling quickly. I have never heard of a bad liner replacement so far. It sure seems like any bleach she throws in could be a waste. But with algae, at least a few gallons a day may stall everything or make it easier to clear up the pool during the SLAM process.

Every time I see someone with this problem, I count my blessings that TFP came along my way last year. Each morning, with coffee in my hands, I stare at my water (no filter running). It is very therapeutic.