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Thread: Help please :)

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    karynkjd's Avatar
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    Help please :)

    Ok, so some of you may have followed my build thread, which was not ideal as far as the PB who I used, and they continue to drive me crazy.

    We received our test kit a few weeks ago and I have posted the results once on my original thread but haven't posted here yet b/c the first month they are in charge of the chemicals and that isn't an option.

    They have taken things from bad to WORSE.

    The initial readings I had before a 9 day vacation were as follows:
    Free Cholorine 1.5
    Combined Chlorine .5
    Total 2.0
    Calcium Hardness 125 PPM
    TA 90
    CYA 60
    PH 8.2
    Salt 3200

    I come back from vacation and the
    chlorine is 0.
    Phosphates are 50ppb
    PH is 7.8
    CYA 25
    TA 83
    (Their test kit)
    oh and SALT is 4800 and I have never one time placed salt in my pool, Personally I've added nothing to the pool yet. I was starting this week since they are done, but now I am at a total loss with the salt so high and wondering if the SWG which they gave me is working right. Every test the chlorine is low or nothing at all and the salt is always a little high. NOW its almost 5000. THE SWG is nothing like friends pools, you don't' get a reading on it, and no other local pool company has heard of it.

    I'm not sure where to even start now, should I empty water and start there. I also am having 35 people over Saturday so afraid to mess too much with it but afraid could get algae.
    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

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    karynkjd's Avatar
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    Re: Going CRAZY - SWG doesn't' seem to work properly and don't know where to START

    Anyone? Anyone?
    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Help please :)

    Hello! I'm afraid I'm not an SWG expert who can talk your ears off on that part, but I'll try to get you going for now okay:
    - Your CYA is very low for a SWG pool. Normally I would say you need to increase stabilizer right away via the sock method to get it up to at least 70 ppm. The Poolmath calculator . But CYA doesn't just drop from 60 to 25 like that. Something is off. Are those YOUR test readings or from somewhere else? If they are yours, then I suggest verifying once again to ensure your CYA is correct. A LOT hinges on that specific item.
    - FC is low as well. Give that water a boost of bleach for now until we get your SWG system dialed-in. Use the calculator to get your FC to about 5-6. If the water begins to get cloudy due to low CYA and SGW not working yet, you may need to go higher later and/or use more liquid bleach.
    - TA is fine.
    - PH is right on the high end. Watch to make sure it doesn't go over 7.8, if it does, use acid to lower to the mid-7s
    - CH is fine for now with a vinyl pool
    - No need to worry about phosphates; proper TFP management will control algae

    Hope this helps get you going.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Help please :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    Hello! I'm afraid I'm not an SWG expert who can talk your ears off on that part, but I'll try to get you going for now okay:
    - Your CYA is very low for a SWG pool. Normally I would say you need to increase stabilizer right away via the sock method to get it up to at least 70 ppm. The Poolmath calculator . But CYA doesn't just drop from 60 to 25 like that. Something is off. Are those YOUR test readings or from somewhere else? If they are yours, then I suggest verifying once again to ensure your CYA is correct. A LOT hinges on that specific item.
    - FC is low as well. Give that water a boost of bleach for now until we get your SWG system dialed-in. Use the calculator to get your FC to about 5-6. If the water begins to get cloudy due to low CYA and SGW not working yet, you may need to go higher later and/or use more liquid bleach.
    - TA is fine.
    - PH is right on the high end. Watch to make sure it doesn't go over 7.8, if it does, use acid to lower to the mid-7s
    - CH is fine for now with a vinyl pool
    - No need to worry about phosphates; proper TFP management will control algae

    Hope this helps get you going.
    Thank you! I was confused on the bleach part, I did buy some but one of the articles I"ve read on here said for SWG only use bleach when slamming so I was afraid to use to up the FC. But now that you said it and I've read alot of those who did it with SWG, I will give it a try. For the CYA. It was tested by the pool company - the first pool company came up with 58 with the same exact water as the second pool company who got near 30. My home kit also was around 30/40 so I would say it was never 60.

    I have to get some acid for the PH asap.

    Ok I'll read again about the sock method and work on that right away.

    Do I just add the amount of bleach it says on pool math, I made the goal 4, and it says 229 OZ. Do I do it all at once, directly into the deep end? Sorry the more I read the more confused I seem to be!
    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Help please :)

    For the bleach, use the Poolmath calculator . Make sure you enter the correct bleach % at the top, and double-check your pool volume. Pour the bleach slowly near a return jet with the pump on to help mix.

    As for the CYA - that is VERY important, and why we highly encourage everyone to have their own test kit. As you can tell, pool stores get it different every time. Do practice with and rely upon YOUR test kit (TF-100, Taylor K-2006, etc) to validate the CYA. CYA is so important because everything you do with (FC) chlorine is based on that starting point - CYA. Good luck!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Help please :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    For the bleach, use the Poolmath calculator . Make sure you enter the correct bleach % at the top, and double-check your pool volume. Pour the bleach slowly near a return jet with the pump on to help mix.

    As for the CYA - that is VERY important, and why we highly encourage everyone to have their own test kit. As you can tell, pool stores get it different every time. Do practice with and rely upon YOUR test kit (TF-100, Taylor K-2006, etc) to validate the CYA. CYA is so important because everything you do with (FC) chlorine is based on that starting point - CYA. Good luck!
    I will check the CYA again when I get home, but like I said I think mine was consistent with the 2nd pool company on my way home last night. The reason I got the second opinion was my salt test wasn't working and the TF_100 doesn't have one, so I wanted to be sure what I was getting into before going with my test results and missing the salt content. Does that make sense?
    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Help please :)

    That's fine, no problem. Your TF-100 is a fantastic set, I have the same one. So trust your reading. Some CYA notes as a friendly reminder for when you do it again later:

    Proper lighting is important for the CYA test. You want to test for CYA outside on a sunny day, but keep the skinny view tube in the shade. Taylor recommends standing in the sun with your back to the sun and the view tube in the shade of your body. Use the mixing bottle to combine/mix the required amounts of pool water and R-0013 reagent, let sit for 30 seconds, then mix again. Then, while holding the skinny tube with the black dot at waist level, begin squirting the mixed solution into the skinny tube. Watch the black dot until it completely disappears. Once it disappears, record the CYA reading. After the first test, you can pour the mixed solution from the skinny view tube back to the mixing bottle, shake, and do the same test a second, third, or fourth time to instill consistency in your technique, become more comfortable with the testing, and validate the CYA reading.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Help please :)

    Hey Karyn,
    looks like Splash has you fixed up about getting your FC where it should be.

    Regarding the salt.
    Salt tests are a basic "feel" of what the salt level really is. They are not very accurate like the tests in the TF100. What matters most, is that your SWG is happy. As long as it is not giving you high salt alarms, and its working right, then it really doesnt matter what the salt level actually is. Most SWGs stated operating range is 3000 - 4500 or so. Its quite a large range and its very common for the SWG to work just fine outside of this range.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Help please :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    That's fine, no problem. Your TF-100 is a fantastic set, I have the same one. So trust your reading. Some CYA notes as a friendly reminder for when you do it again later:

    Proper lighting is important for the CYA test. You want to test for CYA outside on a sunny day, but keep the skinny view tube in the shade. Taylor recommends standing in the sun with your back to the sun and the view tube in the shade of your body. Use the mixing bottle to combine/mix the required amounts of pool water and R-0013 reagent, let sit for 30 seconds, then mix again. Then, while holding the skinny tube with the black dot at waist level, begin squirting the mixed solution into the skinny tube. Watch the black dot until it completely disappears. Once it disappears, record the CYA reading. After the first test, you can pour the mixed solution from the skinny view tube back to the mixing bottle, shake, and do the same test a second, third, or fourth time to instill consistency in your technique, become more comfortable with the testing, and validate the CYA reading.
    Great idea. I will follow these instructions tonight! Thank you. It is a great kid, and my daughter loves doing it with me, so its a bonding moment as well!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    Hey Karyn,
    looks like Splash has you fixed up about getting your FC where it should be.

    Regarding the salt.
    Salt tests are a basic "feel" of what the salt level really is. They are not very accurate like the tests in the TF100. What matters most, is that your SWG is happy. As long as it is not giving you high salt alarms, and its working right, then it really doesnt matter what the salt level actually is. Most SWGs stated operating range is 3000 - 4500 or so. Its quite a large range and its very common for the SWG to work just fine outside of this range.
    I do not see a HIGH salt alarm (light) on my SWG anywhere, just LOW salt.

    My biggest fear at the moment is avoiding ALGAE, so I will add bleach tonight and get the CYA and FC up to par. How do I know when my SWG is working efficiently?
    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Help please :)

    Maybe you can tell us what type of SWG system you have (make and/or model), anything to help the readers. Someone may have something similar that can reply and help you.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Help please :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    Maybe you can tell us what type of SWG system you have (make and/or model), anything to help the readers. Someone may have something similar that can reply and help you.
    Absolutely, it is not a common one at all. It is called Simple Blue - The website says the output is 1.65lb natural chlorine a day. There are three models, I am assuming mine is the highest as I have 27,500 gallons in my pool and the middle only goes to 25K. The highest goes up to 40K
    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

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    Re: Help please :)

    I guess I got confused from your first post.. I apologize for thinking it was 4800-5000

    Lets start over ok? If your pool maintenance people test the salt, then dont believe it. Dont believe any of their test results. So with that said,

    EDIT: just read your system is a Simple Blue.

    I will look that up on the internet, but Im sure it will be easy enough to fix you up.


    Quote Originally Posted by karynkjd View Post

    I do not see a HIGH salt alarm (light) on my SWG anywhere, just LOW salt.
    My biggest fear at the moment is avoiding ALGAE, so I will add bleach tonight and get the CYA and FC up to par. How do I know when my SWG is working efficiently?
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Help please :)



    Just in case this helps.


    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Help please :)

    Hopefully Dave can help you. I wasn't having any luck on-line in my searches.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Help please :)

    Exactly! There is like NO one with that model or manufacturer, and when I look for dealers on their website the one and only on the east coast is my builder.
    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

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    Re: Help please :)

    Simple Salt System - Eastgate Pools Spas

    if this is the same thing, it's a copper ionizer system.
    27' AG 18K Gallons ~ Cartridge Filter ~ Pentair 1.5 HP Pump

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    Re: Help please :)



    Looks similar but don't know if same as name is different


    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    karynkjd's Avatar
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    Re: Help please :)

    Watched the video, not the same


    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Help please :)

    Ok, well I found a little info about it, but the owners manual and the brochure doesnt say very much. But thats ok anyway.
    All salt systems work the same, the biggest difference between all the different brands, is just the features and how the performance is being reported back. Some have numbers, and some simply have status lights.

    The SWG was working ok before you left for vacation... right?
    and now your back, and the SWG says low salt?

    There are 2 things that can cause the low salt light.
    1. the salt is actually low
    2. the sensor inside the cell is not working right which means the salt cell will need to be replaced.
    Thats pretty much the size of it.

    The salt range for your unit is between 3000 and 4000 ppm. So the middle of that range is a good place for it to be. 3500

    Since the unit is new, I suspect that its working correctly, and you are actually low on salt. If you have backwashed a few times, or had any rain overflow, then those both take a bit of salt with it when the water goes out of the pool. And that can account for the low salt light. (you dont loose salt by evaporation of water).

    Ok, so the easy thing to do is add some salt. Question is how much, right? Ok. well thats easy enough not to over-do it since the SWG operates over such a large range.

    So, lets just figure this out. It should be easy enough using pool math.
    I think 2800 is a good number to start with as your salt level, this will give some room in case its a little higher, without overshooting the manufactrers recommended high side of 4000


    So, Pool Math says to add 161 lbs of salt to get from 2800 to 3500.
    If I were you, I would add about 1/2 of that (2 bag), and let it mix a few hours with your pump on high speed. A couple of hours should be enough for it to mix and your salt sensor to start detecting it. If after 2 hours it is still on Low Salt, then add 2 more bags and let it mix.

    My gut feel says this resolve the problem.
    Give it a try and let me know what happens.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

  20. Back To Top    #20
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    Re: Help please :)

    You were right in the beginning, I did say 4800.

    The salt doesn't say Low Salt. All the tests were high on the salt. The Free Chlorine and CC are what are ZERO My salt right now is definitely high.
    New Build started April 2015, 20x30x40 Lagoon Style Vinyl (indigo marble/blue granite), 27,500 GAL, IG, 839 square feet, 9' tanning ledge/baja shelf, 9' radial bench, 8' classic Waterfall, 3'6" to 8'Depth, Sand, Pentair 2 speed Superflow 1 1/2 HP, SWS, 2 Pentair LED Intelibright 5 G lights, Pentair Legend Platinum II pool cleaner, 2 skimmers, 3 returns. 1080 square feet of Silver Slate stamped concrete.

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