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Thread: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

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    Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    Several years back there was discussion about using a fine needle valve threaded into a container with hose going from it to the drain plug on the suction side of the pump. I think Hayward made the valve that was able to be closed enough to allow adjustment for our use. I bought one, and never got around to putting it into use.

    Has there been anyone using this type of set up? Any problems they've encountered? I can't find much with search.

    Thanks

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve



    Bumping to see if anyone can help you.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    I used the Hayward needle valve on the LQ (Liquidator) and it worked very well. The adjustment is fine enough that you can dial it in pretty close. I don't know about hooking it to a tank with undiluted bleach in it, but I suppose it could work.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    I tried this method for a while. The problem is you cannot easily judge the amount of chlorine being drawn in. "If I close the valve another 1/8 turn, does that mean 0.5 oz less or 0.025 per hr?"
    There are just too many variables that effect the outcome, i.e. ambient temp, condition of filter, skimmer accumulation of debris, etc.

    I pretty quickly moved to a Stenner pump where I have a constant, which is the rated or actual measured pump output, that I can use to calculate a reasonably close expected outcome. I know from measuring that the pump (10 GPD rated fixed) has an actual output of 1 oz per 53 seconds +\-, slightly higher than the .889 oz per minute rating. Using that constant (I realize the output may decrease as the tube ages) I can use the timer to deliver a fairly precise chlorine amount across as many time periods as I choose.

    Right now I have the pump delivering 50oz of chlorine in each of two separate main pump run times. During the past few days with 100 degree heat the minimum FC level has been a constant 5-6 PPM. Just right for the 45 CYA level.
    I can easily adjust the chlorine delivered by + or - the length of time the Stenner runs and know I can get an expected result.
    20,000 gal IGV 18x36x6 with 4' radius, Pentair Ultra Flow 1hp, Pentair CC75 cartridge filter, Stenner 45MP2. Built 2003.

    Chemistry teaches us that alcohol is a solution. That figures, as I have solved many of the world's problems while drinking!

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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    Thanks.

    Bama, I wasn't aware you were using it with a liquidator. I have the valve, I guess I'll experiment with it.

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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketo View Post
    I tried this method for a while. The problem is you cannot easily judge the amount of chlorine being drawn in. "If I close the valve another 1/8 turn, does that mean 0.5 oz less or 0.025 per hr?"
    There are just too many variables that effect the outcome, i.e. ambient temp, condition of filter, skimmer accumulation of debris, etc.

    I pretty quickly moved to a Stenner pump where I have a constant, which is the rated or actual measured pump output, that I can use to calculate a reasonably close expected outcome. I know from measuring that the pump (10 GPD rated fixed) has an actual output of 1 oz per 53 seconds +\-, slightly higher than the .889 oz per minute rating. Using that constant (I realize the output may decrease as the tube ages) I can use the timer to deliver a fairly precise chlorine amount across as many time periods as I choose.

    Right now I have the pump delivering 50oz of chlorine in each of two separate main pump run times. During the past few days with 100 degree heat the minimum FC level has been a constant 5-6 PPM. Just right for the 45 CYA level.
    I can easily adjust the chlorine delivered by + or - the length of time the Stenner runs and know I can get an expected result.
    Exactly why I went with the Stenner, fixed output. Interfaced to my Easy Touch with Screen Logic I can adjust the Stenner time from my PC with a couple of mouse clicks.
    38000 Gal, IG, Plaster, 20' x 40' x 10', Attached Raised Spa, Intelliflo VS 3 HP (011018), Pentair Quad DE 60 Filter, Raypak (Rheem) 400,000 BTU (407a low Nox), Easy Touch 8 upgrade, Screenlogic 2 with wireless, IS-4 Spa Side Remote, Stenner 45MPHP10 w/15 gal tank, Intellibrite 5g (3), Dolphin Triton Plus robot with PRO remote, Water Tech Catfish handheld vacuum for spa, TF100 with SpeedStir.

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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    rocketo, did you use the hayward needle valve?

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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    I did not, so my experience may be skewed somewhat. I used this one from USPlastics http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/ite...2220&catid=956
    Maybe the problem is the 2.5 tip does not allow enough control.
    I was hesitant to spend the $$ on the Hayward for an experiment.
    20,000 gal IGV 18x36x6 with 4' radius, Pentair Ultra Flow 1hp, Pentair CC75 cartridge filter, Stenner 45MP2. Built 2003.

    Chemistry teaches us that alcohol is a solution. That figures, as I have solved many of the world's problems while drinking!

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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    Ok, thanks. Yeah I tried that one too, no go. I've got the hayward, so I guess I'll try it.

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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    A stenner pump is the way to go. As to drawing chlorine into the suction side of the pump, I would not do this with any tablet feeder as the pH level will be very low.
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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    Thanks, but to be clear, the system I was talking about was for sodium hypochlorite injection, not pucks or dissolved di-chlor.

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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Rangeball View Post
    Thanks, but to be clear, the system I was talking about was for sodium hypochlorite injection, not pucks or dissolved di-chlor.
    But even liquid injection will cause a pH reduction at the injection point. While the use of liquid chlorine products is generally a pH neutral process there is a lowering when the liquid is added and it is raised again when the chlorine is "consumed" - thus net neutral.

    I would think that suction side additions would cause a lowering on pH in the pump/filter, but how much would take Chem Geek to calculate.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    User mas985 (Mark) has a link in his signature to his own DIY Injector setup. Mark also did all the calculations for FC and pH rise and discovered that if you tune it properly, you will be perfectly fine.

    Cheers,
    Matt
    Matt
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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    True, but I run my pump 24/7 and my daily injection would only be 60 oz, so a very small dribble that should have a really low impact.

    Also, as pointed out, Mark uses a similar set up for acid injection and hasn't noted any low PH problems.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks. I've been through that thread a million times, even participated in it originally, I think.

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    Re: Suction side chlorinator using needle valve

    Quote Originally Posted by Rangeball View Post

    Thanks. I've been through that thread a million times, even participated in it originally, I think.
    Ooops, sorry, I misunderstood your question

    pH changes due to hypochlorite injection should be minimal. Just to be clear, when sodium hypochlorite is add to water, the reaction produces hydroxyl ions (OH-) and the excess lye in the bleach also contributes hydroxyl's so the initial effect is to slightly raise, not lower, the pH. See chem geek's Pool Water Chemistry Post #3. Given the high flow rate of water into the wet end of the pump, I would imagine the pH rise would be minimal at best. As long as you can ensure adequate shut-off with a needle valve so that there isn't a constant source of hypochlorite when the pump is not running, it should work very well.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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