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Thread: CH Problems

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    Chula Vista 45k's Avatar
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    CH Problems

    I have recently taken on the job of maintaining my pool after 3.5 years of having pool service. I am a sucker and made the dreaded walk into leslies. The following are my test results from yesterday;

    FAC-5
    TAC-5
    CH-900
    CYA-90
    TA-80
    PH-7.6
    Copper-0
    Iron-0
    TDS-4300
    PHOS-500

    I retested myself this morning;
    FAC-2
    TAC-2
    PH-7.8

    I added 1quart of acid this morning after testing. I input my information into the TFP calculator and it is suggesting that I reduce my water by 71% to eliviate the CH problem and of course leslies recommended me draining to get rid of TDS. Pool cleaner was using LC and leslies has me using powder and tabs. My question is do I really have to drain the pool?
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: CH Problems

    STOP using the powder and tabs NOW! They will raise your CYA up even higher than it is and truly cause you grief.
    The more CYA that you have in your pool requires higher levels of free chlorine there also and if you can't keep it up that extra high amount you WILL get algae. Liquid chlorine, even household bleach is preferable to what you're doing now.

    Order your own test kit. It will be far more reliable and trusted than Leslies or other pool stores random tests. TFTestkits.net, PoolSupplyWorld.com (in Ca) can both get you the TF-100 test kit a pool your size needs. The cost $68 will be recouped the very first time you DON"T get talked into buying some un-needed chemical at the pool store. DO NOT worry about Phosphates or TDS... that's one area they scare folks into buying silly potions.

    You *may* want to drain some water and replace just to lower that CYA level you've got. If you can't due to drought, you'll have to be very committed to keeping your FC high enough to avoid algae until you can slowly replace water in stages to lower that CYA.

    The CH is high, but almost everyone in the west seems to have that, and it can be worked around by keeping your pH down lower (about 7.2) to avoid scaling. Don't add anything to your pool chemical wise that contains calcium.

    Time to start reading Pool School, up at the top right of this website.
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    Chula Vista 45k's Avatar
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    Re: CH Problems

    Thank you for your reply YippeeSkippy, I am going to order the test kit today and will discontinue the tabs and powder chlorine.
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Re: CH Problems

    you'll have to be very committed to keeping your FC high enough to avoid algae until you can slowly replace water in stages to lower that CYA.

    What would you recommend me having my FC at until I can remove some water?
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Re: CH Problems

    Update: I received my Test kit yesterday and performed all test this morning. Results are;
    CH 5-10
    PH 7.5
    FC 8
    CC 0
    TC 8
    CH 1225
    TA 80
    CYA 40

    Other than adding the recommended baking soda and pretty much draining the pool, does any one have any further concerns with the numbers I provided?
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: CH Problems

    No to baking soda. Raising TA just makes it more prone to growing Calcium scale.

    Partial draining is the most cost-effective way to reduce CH. If you have any lawn that you haven't just let die, use pool water to irrigate it and refill the pool with the irrigation water you saved. Test your tap water. You'll likely discover you're awful close to "ideal" already, so you'll likely never get CH in the pool down to the recommended levels. My experience is that up to 800 CH is not much of a problem. Keep TA low and pH at the lower end of safe and things will be fine. When you get to 1000, there isn't much you can do to prevent scaling.

    Even replacing 4" at a time will likely shave close to 100 CH off the readings each time.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: CH Problems

    Thank you Richard for your rapid reply. I can remove some water at a time as to not have the water company coming after me. I am not sure how to do that. My skimmer has two hole in it, one that goes to filter and the other is plugged. I have a back wash option but I know that will only get me so far. Could you please advise on how to remove the water and let me know which details about my pool you may need?
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Re: CH Problems

    Just tested my CH of tap water and it is at 425
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Re: CH Problems

    IMG_0801.jpgIMG_0800 (1).jpgIMG_0799.jpgI see a drain in the deep end, but I don't notice a valve for it. I have a valve in concrete that shuts of skimmer and pulls water from spa and then another valve in concrete to turn jets on and close return to pool. Here are photos of my plumbing.
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Re: CH Problems

    The drain in the deep end could be plumed to your skimmer, but you said the other hole in the skimmer was plugged, so I don't know. IF the main drain is plumbed to the pump, you could drain as much as you want through backwash. With the pump running, try plugging the skimmer hole to see if you still have water flow out the returns. Maybe the main drain is tee'd in underground.
    18' x 38' Pool, 3' to 8' Depth
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    Re: CH Problems

    I tried plugging the skimmer hole as suggested Robert and very little water was coming through. I suppose there is a great deal of build up in the line which is why the water flow wasn't heavy. I did manage to drain using backwash coming from the hot tub and was able to take out 2" of water. I will refill and test and then rinse and repeat a little at s time. I may also just go rent a pump and pump a little more water.
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Re: CH Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Chula Vista 45k View Post
    Update: I received my Test kit yesterday and performed all test this morning. Results are;
    CH 5-10
    PH 7.5
    FC 8
    CC 0
    TC 8
    CH 1225
    TA 80
    CYA 40

    Other than adding the recommended baking soda and pretty much draining the pool, does any one have any further concerns with the numbers I provided?
    That test kit only measures chlorine in ranges of 5? The difference between 5 & 10 is 100%. It will be very hard to keep proper FC level if this is as accurate as it can do. And at high cya level, or if you need to kill algae, you'll need a test that can read above 10. Take a look at the recommended kits in pool school at the top.
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
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    Re: CH Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeChris View Post
    That test kit only measures chlorine in ranges of 5? The difference between 5 & 10 is 100%. It will be very hard to keep proper FC level if this is as accurate as it can do. And at high cya level, or if you need to kill algae, you'll need a test that can read above 10. Take a look at the recommended kits in pool school at the top.
    I think you misread...ch is 5 to 10...his fc number was 8
    18' x 38' Pool, 3' to 8' Depth
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: CH Problems

    Actually, you're in great shape! You have a hose bib coming right out of the pump befo9rethe filter. Use that.

    I like to move spa water to the pool and then I can empty more at a time without going below the skimmers and I can be filling the spa up again with fresh water at the same time. I don't see the three-ways for that in your pictures, though. But anyway, connect a hose to that faucet and water the lawns.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Chula Vista 45k's Avatar
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    Re: CH Problems

    Once I have hose attached to bib, where should I have the pump running from Skimmer or spa? Sorry just a little confused.
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Re: CH Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by robertmee View Post
    I think you misread...ch is 5 to 10...his fc number was 8
    ah, I saw he still has his hdx kit in his sig and wasn't sure. He had CH listed twice and the second number was more in line with what we were talking about so I figured first reading is Chlorine. but that still doesn't make any sense to me. 5 to 10 calcium hardness? maybe the tf kit has some other tests I'm not familiar with.

    Nevertheless, whatever. This thread will obviously move along fine in spite of me getting confused within it.
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
    Hayward DE filter, 2HP Ecostar VSP, ProLogic PS-4, GVA actuators
    Cal Pools Wave Force Plus (wall return jets plus 2 floor pop-ups), Venturi Skimmer
    Water sheer, 2 wok pots, bubbler stem on the baja step
    ColorLogic Mutlicolor LED lamp. Taylor 2006+speed stir

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: CH Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Chula Vista 45k View Post
    Once I have hose attached to bib, where should I have the pump running from Skimmer or spa? Sorry just a little confused.
    It doesn't matter. It's only taking a little bit of the flow away from the filter, and the rest goes back to wherever.

    As an aside, you did recharge the DE filter after you backwashed, correct?
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: CH Problems

    Actually, I was backwashing with out a filter because Noticed a crack in the manifold and some tears in the grids. New grids arrived today and new O-ring and manifold due in tomorrow. Once I have it all back together tomorrow I will most defiantly recharge. Thanks for the help on the draining issue.
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Re: CH Problems

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeChris View Post
    ah, I saw he still has his hdx kit in his sig and wasn't sure. He had CH listed twice and the second number was more in line with what we were talking about so I figured first reading is Chlorine. but that still doesn't make any sense to me. 5 to 10 calcium hardness? maybe the tf kit has some other tests I'm not familiar with.

    Nevertheless, whatever. This thread will obviously move along fine in spite of me getting confused within it.
    Sorry for the mix up, the first one should have read CL 5-10.
    45k, IG,Plaster, Pentair FLT FNS PLS 60 DE, A.O. Smith 1hp square flange full rate motor SQ1102 single speed, pool built unknown, TF-100 Spa and Baracuda G3

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    Re: CH Problems

    Ok. Maybe you did both the oto and the fas-dpd test.
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
    Hayward DE filter, 2HP Ecostar VSP, ProLogic PS-4, GVA actuators
    Cal Pools Wave Force Plus (wall return jets plus 2 floor pop-ups), Venturi Skimmer
    Water sheer, 2 wok pots, bubbler stem on the baja step
    ColorLogic Mutlicolor LED lamp. Taylor 2006+speed stir

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