Still cloudy after months of effort

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2002sheds

0
Apr 15, 2013
173
Beautiful Santa Rosa, CA
Hi All,
I have a pool issue that is stumping me... it was pretty green and nasty when I first started working on it back in May. I bought the enhanced Taylor testing kit, and now have the following test results (at least the ones I remember right now):

FC 18
CC between .75 and 1.0
CYA 40
PH 7.2

The pool is a kidney shape, 18,000 gunite pool from the late 60's. FC levels were brought into the mid 20's (CYA was over 65 at that time) to ward off an algae bloom, but have been holding fairly steady now instead least the upper teens while I continue to battle this cloudy water.
Visibility is such that I can see the top step int the shallow end and clearly read the plaque of the company that originally built the pool. Unfortunately, that is all the better it has become. I am petty sure that the water is sanitary, but I am quite far from a sparkling pool, despite weeks of 24/7 filtering and constant chemical maintenance.
Last year I switched from the original sand filter to a cartridge -- a Hayward C1750. I bought a new filter cartridge a month ago, and while it helped, the water remains cloudy and I am still stumped...
Is this filter simply too small? The pool is approximately 18,000 gallons. Also, it is unlikely that the plaster was ever re-done.
I had decent results with the sand filter (especially once I put in Zeolite), but the original plumbing sent the waste into the gutter, which is now more than frowned upon. I also don't have the funds to hire a plumber to tap into our sewer main, which is my only acceptable way of disposing of waste water, hence the switch to a cartridge filter.
Any help will be appreciated. We are using the pool, but I would really like for it to look a lot better.

Thanks,
David
 
Sounds like a cool old pool. I like old pools.

You need to SLAM your pool to get rid of the algae once and for all. Here is the process, Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain. You are already on your way after raising the FC for a while. Keep it going with ghe higher FC and it will clear up.

Also, the PH test is not valid when the FC is over 10 so you can skip that.
 
Hi DV,
Thanks for the response. I feel as if I have SLAMed this thing for quite awhile -- weeks without appreciable FC loss or large increases in clarity... any other culprits? How long is "awhile" in your book?
And it seems as if I am getting particulate coming out of the return. I can only see it where it is shallow, but it is there. I am at least partly blaming this on an older filter cartridge that had clarifier run through it. I thought I got it all off in the muriatic acid bath, but apparently not.
I have a newer cartridge that is intact, and I just ordered another (so I can clean one while the other us being used). Is the filter just too small at 175 square feet? I feel as if I am in a holding pattern...


Thanks,
David
 
Hello David! Your issues can only be caused be two things, organics or very fine particulate matter. The glass settling test may help tell you that particulate matter is the culprit. It would be super if you could get us a full set of current test results: ph (if FC is less than 10), cya, CC, TA, and CH.

Please perform the OCLT test. At sundown please add bleach to bring your FC up to SLAM level or slightly above, keep your filter running and take a FC/CC reading immediately before sun up the next morning, post your results here. If your FC loss is 1 or less and your CC is less than or equal to 0.5 we can assume that your problem is particulate or a filter issue.

When you first opened your pool this year what did it look like on a scale of 1 to 10? 1 being almost ready to swim, 10 being sewage water...

If you pass the OCLT I think it would be prudent to look at a very undersized filter or possibly even performing an Alum floc.
 
2002sheds said:
Hi All,
I have a pool issue that is stumping me... it was pretty green and nasty when I first started working on it back in May. I bought the enhanced Taylor testing kit, and now have the following test results (at least the ones I remember right now):

FC 18
CC between .75 and 1.0
CYA 40
PH 7.2

The pool is a kidney shape, 18,000 gunite pool from the late 60's. FC levels were brought into the mid 20's (CYA was over 65 at that time) to ward off an algae bloom, but have been holding fairly steady now instead least the upper teens while I continue to battle this cloudy water.
Visibility is such that I can see the top step int the shallow end and clearly read the plaque of the company that originally built the pool. Unfortunately, that is all the better it has become. I am petty sure that the water is sanitary, but I am quite far from a sparkling pool, despite weeks of 24/7 filtering and constant chemical maintenance.
Last year I switched from the original sand filter to a cartridge -- a Hayward C1750. I bought a new filter cartridge a month ago, and while it helped, the water remains cloudy and I am still stumped...
Is this filter simply too small? The pool is approximately 18,000 gallons. Also, it is unlikely that the plaster was ever re-done.
I had decent results with the sand filter (especially once I put in Zeolite), but the original plumbing sent the waste into the gutter, which is now more than frowned upon. I also don't have the funds to hire a plumber to tap into our sewer main, which is my only acceptable way of disposing of waste water, hence the switch to a cartridge filter.
Any help will be appreciated. We are using the pool, but I would really like for it to look a lot better.

Thanks,
David
Click to expand...
Hello David,

I see that you have a plaster pool, but you didn't show your CH level. Can you please post a full set of test results including FC, CC, pH, CYA, CH & TA (if FC>10 don't bother with pH)? Also, which Taylor kit is it exactly?

I just want to reiterate the three conditions need to be met before you stop a SLAM:
1)OCLT (<1ppm)
2)CC =/<0.5ppm
3)The water is clear

With cloudy water and a CC hovering at 1.0ppm (how did you get 0.75?) You should be continuing the SLAM.

What do you mean by your FC
2002sheds said:
.......... have been holding fairly steady now instead least the upper teens
Click to expand...

Have you passed an OCLT ( http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/136-perform-the-overnight-fc-chlorine-loss-test-oclt )?

There are no shortcuts to a proper SLAM, all that happens is that algae takes over again, and most of that time, energy & $$ on bleach has been wasted.

KILL the algae, don't dance with it!

Dom
 

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Hi Marian,
It has stayed pretty consistent... test results below.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi "Tep",
Thanks! Checking into that today... I still have the Hayward multi-valve, so I could re-plumb and use such a thing as the Slime bag. Here in parched California, water is at a major premium...

- - - Updated - - -

Hi "PA",
Will do...
 
Hi Don,
I love the line "kill the algae, don't dance with it!" I am pretty sure that the algae is dead. Below are the rest results from my Taylor K-2006 FAS-APD test kit. I make no claim to be really good at this yet, beyond getting the FC and CC correct (I have had a lot more practice with these...

FC 25 (holding steady since last night)
CC about .75 (I am using the smaller sample
TA about 290
CH nearly 400 (but my method may be wrong...)

I greatly appreciate the help from this forum. I will do the "water-in-the-glass" test, and hopefully figure out how to post the pictures. There is definitely particulate in the water. I can see it as it blasts out if the return and slows down by the steps. I attributed this to the use of clarifier in one of the old cartridges (and a cleaning job that was not thorough enough), but i still face this issue, even with a new cartridge.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi "Swoop",
That looks awesome !!!! Sorry to ask such a noob question, but would the longer bag simply slip over my existing cartridge? I am getting so desperate, I am considering using floc and re-installing a multi-port valve that I had when we had a sand filter.
 
Hi Dom,
I got to .75 by guessing a little. The smaller sample (10mL) that I used for the CC test nearly cleared with one drop of the reagent, and fully cleared with two. It seems like it is in between... I just didn't want to put 50+ drops of the reagent in...

I understand the three principles regarding a successful SLAM. I have had the pump and filter running 24/7 for weeks now, and consistently high FC. It just seems as if there is still particulate in the water. I looked at the Hayward website today and one of the first FAQs was "why does my cartridge filter not get rid of algae"? I am wondering if the particulate is dead algae. In my old setup (
sand filter) I would use alum and then vacuum to waste and add water to refill. That is not an option in drought-stricken California.
I still have the Hayward multi-valve, and could re-plumb, sending a little of the wastewater onto the lawn and the rest through a Slime Bag or similar device, if recommended.
 
There was a similar recent thread started by MrBruce...should be on the first few pages. Similar that SLAM forever but wouldn't clear. Alum finally did the trick but you will need to be able to vac to waste.
 
Do the OCLT first to rule out organics.

I had something similar last year where after a minor outbreak, much of the dead algae seemed to pass right through the cartridge. Water would be clear with junk settled on the bottom and when I vacuumed it would simply make things more cloudy. I finally wondered if my penny pinching just got me a cheap(er) filter that just wouldn't grab dead algae on Amazon, so, after months of this, I went to the pool store and bought a new cartridge (I use 150 sq foot). Things cleared right up.

There are other good suggestions above (slime bag, floc, etc.) but do the OCLT first to rule out organics.
 
Oops! I feel like this thread is getting into the weeds and not focusing on the issue.

Step #1 is for OP to post a COMPLETE (include CH) set of current test results (unless those you posted in your first post are from yesterday.....they're OK then) and to perform the OCLT.

OP. Let us know if you pass or fail OCLT and we'll go from there. This can be really simple and PLEASE do not put alum in your pool.....not yet, anyway.
 
duraleigh said:
Oops! I feel like this thread is getting into the weeds and not focusing on the issue.

Step #1 is for OP to post a COMPLETE (include CH) set of current test results (unless those you posted in your first post are from yesterday.....they're OK then) and to perform the OCLT.

OP. Let us know if you pass or fail OCLT and we'll go from there. This can be really simple and PLEASE do not put alum in your pool.....not yet, anyway.
Click to expand...

Post #13...he said he maintained 25 FC over night. And has less than 1 CC.
 
robertmee said:
Post #13...he said he maintained 25 FC over night. And has less than 1 CC.
Click to expand...
Two drops of R-0871 is 1.0ppm in my book. When I initially SLAMed I made sure there was no doubt at all that I was =/<0.5ppm fro two nights.

OP- when you say FC maintained overnight, was is 1.0ppm or less in an 8-hour period?

Dom
 

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