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Thread: Still cloudy after months of effort

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    Still cloudy after months of effort

    Hi All,
    I have a pool issue that is stumping me... it was pretty green and nasty when I first started working on it back in May. I bought the enhanced Taylor testing kit, and now have the following test results (at least the ones I remember right now):

    FC 18
    CC between .75 and 1.0
    CYA 40
    PH 7.2

    The pool is a kidney shape, 18,000 gunite pool from the late 60's. FC levels were brought into the mid 20's (CYA was over 65 at that time) to ward off an algae bloom, but have been holding fairly steady now instead least the upper teens while I continue to battle this cloudy water.
    Visibility is such that I can see the top step int the shallow end and clearly read the plaque of the company that originally built the pool. Unfortunately, that is all the better it has become. I am petty sure that the water is sanitary, but I am quite far from a sparkling pool, despite weeks of 24/7 filtering and constant chemical maintenance.
    Last year I switched from the original sand filter to a cartridge -- a Hayward C1750. I bought a new filter cartridge a month ago, and while it helped, the water remains cloudy and I am still stumped...
    Is this filter simply too small? The pool is approximately 18,000 gallons. Also, it is unlikely that the plaster was ever re-done.
    I had decent results with the sand filter (especially once I put in Zeolite), but the original plumbing sent the waste into the gutter, which is now more than frowned upon. I also don't have the funds to hire a plumber to tap into our sewer main, which is my only acceptable way of disposing of waste water, hence the switch to a cartridge filter.
    Any help will be appreciated. We are using the pool, but I would really like for it to look a lot better.

    Thanks,
    David
    18,000 gallon, in-ground gunite pool
    Hayward C-1750 Cartridge filter
    3/4 hp pump
    in Sunny Northern California

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Sounds like a cool old pool. I like old pools.

    You need to SLAM your pool to get rid of the algae once and for all. Here is the process, Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain. You are already on your way after raising the FC for a while. Keep it going with ghe higher FC and it will clear up.

    Also, the PH test is not valid when the FC is over 10 so you can skip that.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Hi DV,
    Thanks for the response. I feel as if I have SLAMed this thing for quite awhile -- weeks without appreciable FC loss or large increases in clarity... any other culprits? How long is "awhile" in your book?
    And it seems as if I am getting particulate coming out of the return. I can only see it where it is shallow, but it is there. I am at least partly blaming this on an older filter cartridge that had clarifier run through it. I thought I got it all off in the muriatic acid bath, but apparently not.
    I have a newer cartridge that is intact, and I just ordered another (so I can clean one while the other us being used). Is the filter just too small at 175 square feet? I feel as if I am in a holding pattern...


    Thanks,
    David
    18,000 gallon, in-ground gunite pool
    Hayward C-1750 Cartridge filter
    3/4 hp pump
    in Sunny Northern California

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Have you kept your FC constantly at shock level for an extended period of time? (Not just up-down, up-down?)

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    Have you kept your FC constantly at shock level for an extended period of time? (Not just up-down, up-down?)

    Hi Marion,
    Yes. The last time it was even below 13 ppm was over 10 days ago.

    No one has yet made any mention of the filter in their responses. Should I take it that the trouble may lie elsewhere?
    18,000 gallon, in-ground gunite pool
    Hayward C-1750 Cartridge filter
    3/4 hp pump
    in Sunny Northern California

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    I SO can't help you with filter issues. I am all chemistry, not engineering! If you don't get a response soon, try posting in the equipment area Pumping Station There are geeks there who would love to help!!!

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Get some of your pool water and put it in a clear glass. Let it sit for a few hours. Take a pic when you first get the water and then again after the time is up. Post the pics.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    I suggest you check "slime bag". It is a add on 1 micron filter not very expensive.
    South of France inground rectangular 17k pool - ruber membrane. Sliding dome, black thermal blanket covering 75% of the pool surface. Aqualux 3/4Hp pump, glass media sand filter, Zodillac robot, 110W UV-c lamp, Hayward brominator, Caliente 12kW heat pump.

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Hello David! Your issues can only be caused be two things, organics or very fine particulate matter. The glass settling test may help tell you that particulate matter is the culprit. It would be super if you could get us a full set of current test results: ph (if FC is less than 10), cya, CC, TA, and CH.

    Please perform the OCLT test. At sundown please add bleach to bring your FC up to SLAM level or slightly above, keep your filter running and take a FC/CC reading immediately before sun up the next morning, post your results here. If your FC loss is 1 or less and your CC is less than or equal to 0.5 we can assume that your problem is particulate or a filter issue.

    When you first opened your pool this year what did it look like on a scale of 1 to 10? 1 being almost ready to swim, 10 being sewage water...

    If you pass the OCLT I think it would be prudent to look at a very undersized filter or possibly even performing an Alum floc.
    39YO 13K gallon former SWAMP/MONEY PIT, concrete bottom/Fiberglass Walls, Ecotech VS pump, Hayward Sand Filter, Dolphin DX5 Plus, Loop-Loc safety cover and YES, I have a TFT-100 test kit!

    Shock Level and Maintain - CL/CYA Chart

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Quote Originally Posted by 2002sheds View Post
    Hi All,
    I have a pool issue that is stumping me... it was pretty green and nasty when I first started working on it back in May. I bought the enhanced Taylor testing kit, and now have the following test results (at least the ones I remember right now):

    FC 18
    CC between .75 and 1.0
    CYA 40
    PH 7.2

    The pool is a kidney shape, 18,000 gunite pool from the late 60's. FC levels were brought into the mid 20's (CYA was over 65 at that time) to ward off an algae bloom, but have been holding fairly steady now instead least the upper teens while I continue to battle this cloudy water.
    Visibility is such that I can see the top step int the shallow end and clearly read the plaque of the company that originally built the pool. Unfortunately, that is all the better it has become. I am petty sure that the water is sanitary, but I am quite far from a sparkling pool, despite weeks of 24/7 filtering and constant chemical maintenance.
    Last year I switched from the original sand filter to a cartridge -- a Hayward C1750. I bought a new filter cartridge a month ago, and while it helped, the water remains cloudy and I am still stumped...
    Is this filter simply too small? The pool is approximately 18,000 gallons. Also, it is unlikely that the plaster was ever re-done.
    I had decent results with the sand filter (especially once I put in Zeolite), but the original plumbing sent the waste into the gutter, which is now more than frowned upon. I also don't have the funds to hire a plumber to tap into our sewer main, which is my only acceptable way of disposing of waste water, hence the switch to a cartridge filter.
    Any help will be appreciated. We are using the pool, but I would really like for it to look a lot better.

    Thanks,
    David
    Hello David,

    I see that you have a plaster pool, but you didn't show your CH level. Can you please post a full set of test results including FC, CC, pH, CYA, CH & TA (if FC>10 don't bother with pH)? Also, which Taylor kit is it exactly?

    I just want to reiterate the three conditions need to be met before you stop a SLAM:
    1)OCLT (<1ppm)
    2)CC =/<0.5ppm
    3)The water is clear

    With cloudy water and a CC hovering at 1.0ppm (how did you get 0.75?) You should be continuing the SLAM.

    What do you mean by your FC
    Quote Originally Posted by 2002sheds View Post
    .......... have been holding fairly steady now instead least the upper teens
    Have you passed an OCLT ( http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...loss-test-oclt )?

    There are no shortcuts to a proper SLAM, all that happens is that algae takes over again, and most of that time, energy & $$ on bleach has been wasted.

    KILL the algae, don't dance with it!

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Hi Marian,
    It has stayed pretty consistent... test results below.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi "Tep",
    Thanks! Checking into that today... I still have the Hayward multi-valve, so I could re-plumb and use such a thing as the Slime bag. Here in parched California, water is at a major premium...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi "PA",
    Will do...
    18,000 gallon, in-ground gunite pool
    Hayward C-1750 Cartridge filter
    3/4 hp pump
    in Sunny Northern California

  12. Back To Top    #12
    swoopman's Avatar
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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    DudaDiesel has something similar to a Slime Bag for much less:
    filter bag polypropylene | Duda Diesel Alternative Energy, Chemicals & Industrial Supply Store
    TF-100 Test Kit
    22,000 gallon, 20x40 kidney-shape IG plaster pool built in 1986
    Nautilus NS-36 DE filter, Hayward Self Prime Super Pump 1HP
    Polaris Automatic Pool Cleaner, PB4-60 3/4 HP pump

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Hi Don,
    I love the line "kill the algae, don't dance with it!" I am pretty sure that the algae is dead. Below are the rest results from my Taylor K-2006 FAS-APD test kit. I make no claim to be really good at this yet, beyond getting the FC and CC correct (I have had a lot more practice with these...

    FC 25 (holding steady since last night)
    CC about .75 (I am using the smaller sample
    TA about 290
    CH nearly 400 (but my method may be wrong...)

    I greatly appreciate the help from this forum. I will do the "water-in-the-glass" test, and hopefully figure out how to post the pictures. There is definitely particulate in the water. I can see it as it blasts out if the return and slows down by the steps. I attributed this to the use of clarifier in one of the old cartridges (and a cleaning job that was not thorough enough), but i still face this issue, even with a new cartridge.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi "Swoop",
    That looks awesome !!!! Sorry to ask such a noob question, but would the longer bag simply slip over my existing cartridge? I am getting so desperate, I am considering using floc and re-installing a multi-port valve that I had when we had a sand filter.
    18,000 gallon, in-ground gunite pool
    Hayward C-1750 Cartridge filter
    3/4 hp pump
    in Sunny Northern California

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Hi Dom,
    I got to .75 by guessing a little. The smaller sample (10mL) that I used for the CC test nearly cleared with one drop of the reagent, and fully cleared with two. It seems like it is in between... I just didn't want to put 50+ drops of the reagent in...

    I understand the three principles regarding a successful SLAM. I have had the pump and filter running 24/7 for weeks now, and consistently high FC. It just seems as if there is still particulate in the water. I looked at the Hayward website today and one of the first FAQs was "why does my cartridge filter not get rid of algae"? I am wondering if the particulate is dead algae. In my old setup (
    sand filter) I would use alum and then vacuum to waste and add water to refill. That is not an option in drought-stricken California.
    I still have the Hayward multi-valve, and could re-plumb, sending a little of the wastewater onto the lawn and the rest through a Slime Bag or similar device, if recommended.

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    By holding steady at 25 can we assume that you passed the OCLT?
    39YO 13K gallon former SWAMP/MONEY PIT, concrete bottom/Fiberglass Walls, Ecotech VS pump, Hayward Sand Filter, Dolphin DX5 Plus, Loop-Loc safety cover and YES, I have a TFT-100 test kit!

    Shock Level and Maintain - CL/CYA Chart

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    There was a similar recent thread started by MrBruce...should be on the first few pages. Similar that SLAM forever but wouldn't clear. Alum finally did the trick but you will need to be able to vac to waste.
    18' x 38' Pool, 3' to 8' Depth
    Vinyl Liner
    SWG
    Variable Speed Pump
    Sand Filter

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Do the OCLT first to rule out organics.

    I had something similar last year where after a minor outbreak, much of the dead algae seemed to pass right through the cartridge. Water would be clear with junk settled on the bottom and when I vacuumed it would simply make things more cloudy. I finally wondered if my penny pinching just got me a cheap(er) filter that just wouldn't grab dead algae on Amazon, so, after months of this, I went to the pool store and bought a new cartridge (I use 150 sq foot). Things cleared right up.

    There are other good suggestions above (slime bag, floc, etc.) but do the OCLT first to rule out organics.
    Dedicated TFPer since 2012 with recommended test kit
    Above ground, 30 foot round pool, 21,000 gallons
    Hayward 150 sq foot cartridge filter, 1HP Waterway pump
    Raypak 400K BTU NG Heater!
    Installed in 2006? (just a guess, pool came with house I purchased in June 2012)

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Oops! I feel like this thread is getting into the weeds and not focusing on the issue.

    Step #1 is for OP to post a COMPLETE (include CH) set of current test results (unless those you posted in your first post are from yesterday.....they're OK then) and to perform the OCLT.

    OP. Let us know if you pass or fail OCLT and we'll go from there. This can be really simple and PLEASE do not put alum in your pool.....not yet, anyway.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Oops! I feel like this thread is getting into the weeds and not focusing on the issue.

    Step #1 is for OP to post a COMPLETE (include CH) set of current test results (unless those you posted in your first post are from yesterday.....they're OK then) and to perform the OCLT.

    OP. Let us know if you pass or fail OCLT and we'll go from there. This can be really simple and PLEASE do not put alum in your pool.....not yet, anyway.
    Post #13...he said he maintained 25 FC over night. And has less than 1 CC.
    18' x 38' Pool, 3' to 8' Depth
    Vinyl Liner
    SWG
    Variable Speed Pump
    Sand Filter

  20. Back To Top    #20


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    Re: Still cloudy after months of effort

    Quote Originally Posted by robertmee View Post
    Post #13...he said he maintained 25 FC over night. And has less than 1 CC.
    Two drops of R-0871 is 1.0ppm in my book. When I initially SLAMed I made sure there was no doubt at all that I was =/<0.5ppm fro two nights.

    OP- when you say FC maintained overnight, was is 1.0ppm or less in an 8-hour period?

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

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