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Thread: New IG Pool Install August 2015 - Initial Chemical Balancing

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    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    Lake Luzerne, NY
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    11

    New IG Pool Install August 2015 - Initial Chemical Balancing

    Hello All,

    I have been lurking for a couple of months now while getting ready for the installation of our new Leisure Fiberglass pool hopefully starting on August 12th. I have been reading through pool school extensively and "playing" with values in the pool calculator for some time. I received my TF-100 test kit XL version (extra CYA testing reagent and magnetic mixer also) last week and have tested a couple sources of possible make-up water so far. I also have some metal test strips coming this week for some water testing on my possible makeup water. And to finish it out I have also ordered some Aqua-7 test strips (I know, evil, lol) for when I am traveling and my wife decides to get a little lazy with daily water testing, at least I will get "some" results. Right now I am trying to figure out the best initial balance of the pool. I have a feeling that the PB will not be around long enough to really get the pool inline so I'd rather just take care of it myself, plus he owns a pool store so I am sure he would want me to buy a bunch of chemicals I probably do not need, as seen by him supplying an offline chlorinator with the pool, at least it will be there when we use a couple of pucks when we go out of town for a trip.

    Okay onto the testing of my sources of water:

    Leisure Recommended Range (Warranty) TFP Recommended Well Water* Softened Well Water* Fill Water test Report
    CL 1-3 ppm 2-5 ppm (CYA=30) 0 ppm 0 ppm 0.87 ppm
    PH 7.2 - 7.4 7.5 - 7.8 7.8 7.5 7.8
    CH 150 - 200 220 - 300 75 ppm 0 ppm 19.2 ppm
    TA 80 - 120 70 - 90+ 55 ppm 60 ppm 22.7 ppm
    *= tested with TF-100
    I assume all CYA levels to be at 0 ppm

    The initial fill water will be town water supply from a couple of towns over. I have my wife obtaining a sample of it from a co-worker so I can confirm the test report and I will also test the water when it is in the pool before adding any chemicals.

    In my well water I assume I have iron content due to the fact that we had brownish (orange) water that was noticeable in a large (bath tub) body of water before we installed a whole house filter and softener. When I change the mechanical filter (1 micron) on a yearly basis the filter is brown in color and when I take some of the dried brown dust it is magnetic. Apparently the mechanical filter and softener are taking care of the iron though because we do not have the issue inside anymore. That being said the outside spigots are piped in before the filtering, so that is one of my choices of make-up water. After I get my metal test strips I plan to test for metals in both sources. If it is eliminated inside then I am going to buy another filter housing and a 0.5 micron filter to go on a garden hose for my make up water. I am not sure if I can completely filter the iron out mechanically or if some of it will remain but with the test strips I can verify this one way or another. I would prefer to not use softened water for the make-up water if possible due to the demand on the water softener but I also do not want the iron in the pool.

    Onto my initial balancing.
    The PB is supplying 18 lbs. of TA increaser. This actually seems about right based on the TA result from the town water test report, to get me to 102.7 ppm of TA.
    After the TA increaser I was going to add 1 gallon of instant conditioner (CYA) which should get me to a level of 23 ppm of CYA.
    Next I was going to add 1 gallon of 8.25% bleach which should get me to about 6 ppm of FC
    I think that should be okay for the first 12-24 hours.

    The PB is also supplying 5lbs. of Trichlor (I know, again, evil), so to keep him happy the week or so he is going to be around and to raise my CYA to ~33 ppm I was going to use the Trichlor and offline chlorinator until 2.5 lbs of the pucks were used. I figure in I need about 2-3 ppm of FC daily then I should run this way for about one week. During this time I will also regulate the PH since the Trichlor will drop the PH.

    The PB says that I should not try to calcium balance my pool at all because it is fiberglass, but from what I see the fill water will only have about 19.2 ppm of CH and for warranty purposes Leisure wants 150 - 200 ppm. I don't think I will mess with this too much the first week or two but after I stop using the Trichlor I probably will try to get this level up to the Leisure recommendation. What do you think?

    Ultimately (a week or so in) I will be using liquid chlorine (bleach or other, still working on the best source) for my chlorination and these are the values I plan on trying to maintain:
    CL = 3-4 ppm
    PH = 7.4-7.5
    TA = 90-110 ppm
    CH = 175 ppm
    CYA = 30 ppm (no more than 40)

    I am trying to balance TFP recommendations with the recommendations in the Leisure warranty. I believe Leisure has some margin of error in their recommendations since every manufacturer does, probably 10 - 20 %.

    What do you all think about my plan for balancing and the numbers I am shooting for? This is my first pool ever to maintain so I am learning. I have spent a lot of time reading and researching so I hope I am on the right track!

    Thanks for all your future help! Hopefully I will be able to give back someday also when I have enough knowledge.
    IG Leisure Pools Riviera Freeform 34' (Fiberglass 16,100 gallons advertised, actual is around 12,000 gallons), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair Sand Dollar 80, ZeoLite Filter Media, Off-line Chlorinator (not in use), 48" Under Coping Waterfall, PAL-2000 Lights w/ Wireless Driver, TF-100 Test Kit, August 2015 Install

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    Join Date
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    Re: New IG Pool Install August 2015 - Initial Chemical Balancing

    Well the post of the testing results didn't work out so well since the columns got condensed, so here they are again:

    Leisure Pools Recommended Levels (for warranty):
    CL: 1-3 ppm
    PH: 7.2-7.4
    CH: 150-200 ppm
    TA: 80-120 ppm

    TFP Recommended Levels:
    CL: 4-8 ppm
    PH: 7.5-7.8
    CH: 220-320 ppm
    TA: 70-90+

    Well Water TF-100 Tested:
    CL: 0 ppm
    PH: 7.8
    CH: 75 ppm
    TA: 55 ppm

    Softened (Filtered) Well Water TF-100 Tested:
    CL: 0 ppm
    PH: 7.5
    CH: 0 ppm
    TA: 60ppm

    Fill Water Test Report:
    CL: 0.87 ppm
    PH: 7.8
    CH: 19.2 ppm
    TA: 22.7 ppm
    IG Leisure Pools Riviera Freeform 34' (Fiberglass 16,100 gallons advertised, actual is around 12,000 gallons), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair Sand Dollar 80, ZeoLite Filter Media, Off-line Chlorinator (not in use), 48" Under Coping Waterfall, PAL-2000 Lights w/ Wireless Driver, TF-100 Test Kit, August 2015 Install

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    Re: New IG Pool Install August 2015 - Initial Chemical Balancing

    Welcome to the forum.
    I am trying to balance TFP recommendations with the recommendations in the Leisure warranty. I believe Leisure has some margin of error in their recommendations since every manufacturer does, probably 10 - 20 %.
    Well, there's the problem. Mixing and matching advice just doesn't work, You will have to make a decision to go with what we suggest or what they do. Blending both leaves you in the befuddled middle.

    I am not going to analyze what they suggest but I will say this forum will provide you the support of thousands of successful pool owners should you choose to take the advice we give,
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: New IG Pool Install August 2015 - Initial Chemical Balancing

    About the only *REAL* difference in TFP and Leslie is the FC. If you have a CYA of 30, then using the CYA/Chlorine chart target the maximum (5ppm) and never let it drop below 3. If you follow Leslie's recommendation of 1, that's with no CYA, and the FC will burn off in an hour leaving your pool un-sanitized and subject to algae growth. The FC is not grossly different where there would ever be a nullification of any warranty. It's not like they're going to show up and test your FC unannounced
    18' x 38' Pool, 3' to 8' Depth
    Vinyl Liner
    SWG
    Variable Speed Pump
    Sand Filter

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    Lake Luzerne, NY
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    Re: New IG Pool Install August 2015 - Initial Chemical Balancing

    Duraleigh, thank you for the welcome!

    I'm a bit hesitant to completely ignore the manufacturer's recommendations since they are the ones that will be honoring the 30 year structural and 10 year finish warranty. If TFPF honored my warranty if I had issues when I followed their method I would have no issues jumping right in since I have a tendency to believe in your method. Since I will be extremely close to the TFPF method I am wondering why you would think there would me an issue? I am curious more than anything, I have not made any final desicions on anything yet so I just want to see all sides of it. Here again is what I was thinking to aim for for the readings and the reasons why. I would like any and all opinions on the matter.

    CL (FC): 4 ppm - 1 over manf. recommendation, with in TFP recommendations with CYA of 30
    PH: 7.4-7.5 - with in 0.1 of both the manf. and TFP recommendations
    CH: 175 ppm - with in manf. recommendation, 45 ppm below TFP recommendation - here I believe (maybe incorrectly) that the manf. would know the best hardness level to maintain for their gelcoat finish, and this has fairly little effect on overall pool chemistry?
    TA: 90-110 ppm - with in both manf. and TFP recommendations
    CYA: 30 ppm - no manf. recommendation, with in TFP recommendation

    After this review the only parameters I am slightly out of is PH by 0.1, can that really be that senstative? And CH, from what I have read this is the least important parameter.

    I am interested to hear your views on this.


    Hello robertmee, I am a little confused on why you brought up the Leslie method? I believe this is a pool store? Maybe you misunderstood, I am getting a Leisure fiberglass pool, with the manf. warranty, not anything from a pool store, I am not even sure they exist around where I live. As for warranty purpose, I am "suppose" to get my water tested twice a season by a pool store to have a record in case there is a warranty claim. I will be testing daily myself with the TF100 so when I have a day that I meet the manf. values I will grab a sample and have the pool store run a test so I can have the record for the manf.


    My original question from the beginning was if I am on the right track for a proper initial balancing of the pool chemicals which seems to be largely unanswered still. Thinking about it some more I think I will add som calcium Chloride as a last step to bring the hardness up to the 175 ppm range.


    Very interested to hear everyone's responses and advice, sorry for the long post, I just want to make sure I am being understood and that I am doing things correctly.
    IG Leisure Pools Riviera Freeform 34' (Fiberglass 16,100 gallons advertised, actual is around 12,000 gallons), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair Sand Dollar 80, ZeoLite Filter Media, Off-line Chlorinator (not in use), 48" Under Coping Waterfall, PAL-2000 Lights w/ Wireless Driver, TF-100 Test Kit, August 2015 Install

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    Re: New IG Pool Install August 2015 - Initial Chemical Balancing

    Yes I misread Leslie for liesure...but the advice is the same...you'll soon find out that pool chemistry while based on science isn't exact. That's why most all recommended readings are given in ranges. In a single day FC will vary by 2 to 3ppm based on sun or organics getting into pool. pH will vary depending on amount of aeration. To think that liesure is going to hold you to exact numbers is a bit naive. They want to make sure your pH isn't something overly acidic which can damage equipment. But I can fairly predict they're not going to care about if your FC is 2ppm greater than what they say. Lastly what are you going to do when they're test results differ widely from yours? Pool stores and builders are notorious for spurious results.
    18' x 38' Pool, 3' to 8' Depth
    Vinyl Liner
    SWG
    Variable Speed Pump
    Sand Filter

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    Join Date
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    Lake Luzerne, NY
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    Re: New IG Pool Install August 2015 - Initial Chemical Balancing

    Hello Robertmee,

    Thank you you for your response!

    Trust me me I am not naive on how manufacturer's work, I work for and electrical manufacturing company with 150,000 employees worldwide and an annual revenue of 42 billion USD. We would honor warranties with approximate numbers because simply it is just good for business and it takes less money to just pay then to fight it. That being said manufacturer's usually also have very valid reasons behind their recommendations. A lot of research goes into it. I do agree it is not wise to follow pool store advice as they are actively trying to sell you products. This is where a manufacturer is more trust worthy, since it is in their best interest not to have a warranty claim. But I digress, when the pool store numbers are off, I will always have my pages and pages of excel spreadsheets worth of results of daily testing to fall back on. Anyways hopefully I have done enough research into the manufacturer and the PB that I would never have to worry about making a claim anyways.

    Regardless on my exact numbers which I will still fine tune most likely following TFP, is my method to get to an initial balance and starting point correct?
    IG Leisure Pools Riviera Freeform 34' (Fiberglass 16,100 gallons advertised, actual is around 12,000 gallons), Pentair SuperFlo VS, Pentair Sand Dollar 80, ZeoLite Filter Media, Off-line Chlorinator (not in use), 48" Under Coping Waterfall, PAL-2000 Lights w/ Wireless Driver, TF-100 Test Kit, August 2015 Install

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