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Thread: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

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    I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    Hello everyone! Haven't been on here in forever because I simply NEVER have water issues anymore. But now I finally have an issue...maybe. Since the start of the season (opened May 1st), I have added 3 of the 4 pound canisters of HTH stabilizer. I hung the sock full in front of the return... blah blah blah. Lets play devils advocate and pretend my CYA upon opening was 0 (even though it couldn't have been). According to the calculator, this should have brought my CYA up to at least 45 ppm. Well, the black dot is, well, black. I filled all the way to the top of the tube, it doesn't change in clarity at all. I do know how to do the test and have been doing it for years. I haven't had to add any water this year. And certainly haven't drained any. Water is clear. No CC's. So, any clue as to what's going on?

    FC:4
    CC:0
    CYA:issue
    Ph:7.8
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    According to my calculations adding 3 lbs of cya will only raise your cya to 11, assuming your pool is 33000 gallons...the cya test accuracy is only +/- 10 ppm.
    39YO 13K gallon former SWAMP/MONEY PIT, concrete bottom/Fiberglass Walls, Ecotech VS pump, Hayward Sand Filter, Dolphin DX5 Plus, Loop-Loc safety cover and YES, I have a TFT-100 test kit!

    Shock Level and Maintain - CL/CYA Chart

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    I believe he put in 3 canisters of stabilizer each weighing 4 pounds. 12 pounds total.
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    Hi, Theresa,

    Don't be such a stranger!

    You know, we have heard enough anecdotal evidence that I am beginning to wonder if there is something fishy afoot. There is no other answer than to assume someone DID NOT put CYA in your canisters. I think HTH owes you an explanation and some CYA.

    Anyone else have issues? I know I have read it here on the forum more than once this season....maybe like 5 times.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1162 View Post
    I believe he put in 3 canisters of stabilizer each weighing 4 pounds. 12 pounds total.
    Yes, I see that...eyes saw one thing brain saw another! That narrows the problem down to testing (error or bad reagents) or the HTH CYA...I'm kinda thinking Dave could be correct.
    39YO 13K gallon former SWAMP/MONEY PIT, concrete bottom/Fiberglass Walls, Ecotech VS pump, Hayward Sand Filter, Dolphin DX5 Plus, Loop-Loc safety cover and YES, I have a TFT-100 test kit!

    Shock Level and Maintain - CL/CYA Chart

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Hi, Theresa,

    Don't be such a stranger!

    You know, we have heard enough anecdotal evidence that I am beginning to wonder if there is something fishy afoot. There is no other answer than to assume someone DID NOT put CYA in your canisters. I think HTH owes you an explanation and some CYA.

    Anyone else have issues? I know I have read it here on the forum more than once this season....maybe like 5 times.
    I may have posted one of the other reports you saw -- not HTH though, HDX brand (but who makes it for them?) bought from Home Depot late last summer; the 2 pounds I added to 21k gal made no difference on the test. May just be my testing error, but I'd expect *relative* levels to increase at least. I've tried a few times and if anything the level is slightly lower than I measured before adding. And I have the 50ppm standard solution to compare. I have put in some leftover tablets to get through some vacation time and see if the CYA goes up after a couple weeks of those; depending on the level when I get back I will try purchasing a different brand from a different store and see if that works differently. I do wonder if there is a large bad production batch?
    21000gal IG plaster, Sacramento CA area (late 1950s/early 60s)
    Filter: Cartridge, Pentair CCP420 (2014)
    Main pump: Pentair IntelliFlo VS (2015)
    Boost pump: 3/4hp (2011), Polaris 280 cleaner (unknown age)

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Hi, Theresa,

    Don't be such a stranger!

    You know, we have heard enough anecdotal evidence that I am beginning to wonder if there is something fishy afoot. There is no other answer than to assume someone DID NOT put CYA in your canisters. I think HTH owes you an explanation and some CYA.

    Anyone else have issues? I know I have read it here on the forum more than once this season....maybe like 5 times.
    I have. Saw it after the first two additions this spring which should have been all I needed. I've made two more since, and after experimenting with Pucks for OOT situations, I'm finally up to what I'm comfortable calling 40-45. Last weekend as matter of fact. With a fairly cloudy season until early July, I was able to get away with about 30, and have acceptable loss.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    Hmmm, of course I wondered the same thing but went straight to human error. How could I even know? I'm absolutely POSITIVE I put in 3 canisters. I bought the 1st 2 from Walmart and the last one from Meijer. Should I go to... DUN DUN DUN...'the pool store'? EEEEEK! I can't handle this!!
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    So I called HTH. Guess what? I don't have the bottles from a month ago so I can't give them a batch number. They said surely my reagents are no good. He suggested I go to my local pool store to get a more accurate reading because the kit I have at home can in NO WAY be as good as what the pool store has. Then he asked me to buy 2 more canisters from the same store and put those in today. Then I'm to call him back after I've visited my trusty pool store with my numbers. UGH! Super annoying. Dave, can you tell me how to do the test that will tell me my closest CYA number since the tube only goes to 20ppm.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    How old is your CYA reagent? I don't see the harm in going to the pool store to get a conformation.
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    I do, because years of experience has taught us that this is one of, if not the most inconsistent tests there are from pool stores.

    It's extremely rare for R0013 to go bad.

    Theresa, how long has it been since you added some, and do you see any unusual demand aside from Sunlight?
    TFP Moderator
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  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_B View Post
    I do, because years of experience has taught us that this is one of, if not the most inconsistent tests there are from pool stores.

    It's extremely rare for R0013 to go bad.

    Theresa, how long has it been since you added some, and do you see any unusual demand aside from Sunlight?
    Maybe they are the rare case. Maybe one of the kids spilled the reagent & refilled with water. Were not looking for an accurate measurement from the pool store just if its around 0, 50, over 100. I'd just hate to have them end up doing a major drain/refill on such a large pool.
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes View Post
    Hello everyone! Haven't been on here in forever because I simply NEVER have water issues anymore. But now I finally have an issue...maybe. Since the start of the season (opened May 1st), I have added 3 of the 4 pound canisters of HTH stabilizer. I hung the sock full in front of the return... blah blah blah. Lets play devils advocate and pretend my CYA upon opening was 0 (even though it couldn't have been). According to the calculator, this should have brought my CYA up to at least 45 ppm. Well, the black dot is, well, black. I filled all the way to the top of the tube, it doesn't change in clarity at all. I do know how to do the test and have been doing it for years. I haven't had to add any water this year. And certainly haven't drained any. Water is clear. No CC's. So, any clue as to what's going on?

    FC:4
    CC:0
    CYA:issue
    Ph:7.8
    Hey, welcome back! Don't assume the CYA couldn't have gone to 0 over the winter even if your pool stays clear. It does happen. I have some questions. Have you had a wet winter/spring/summer? Does the chlorine demand seem higher than usual this year?

    When you add the next batch of CYA put the sock in the skimmer. It will dissolve much faster and you should be able to get a positive test result once it is all dissolved.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    I have been having a similar issue with trying to hold CYA in my pool this year. I have now added CYA a total of three times to get to a level of 70-80. I added CYA on July 18 (reading was 60) and tested on July 25 and got the same reading of 60. My pool is in full sun for 14 hours a day so I do get some evaporation and usually top off the pool once a week or week and half, but can't fathom this would be enough to deplete the CYA by 20 points in a week! I'll test again this Saturday to see what the level is. In the past, I have never added more CYA in the course of the summer. I can't remember what brand my stabilizer is, but I did buy it a the behemoth WalMart. I have new CYA reagent bought in May or June from TFTest.
    5900 G Fiberglass IG pool (circa 1990), SWG Hayward Aqua Rite GoldLine (2013), IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (2013), Hayward Pro Sand Filter (circa 1990), Well water (no iron or other metals fortunately), test with Taylor K2006C, Charleston, SC

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    welllllll, we had about 30 days of straight rain in June. BUT, we had the cover closed and kept pumping it every time before we opened it. So really, not much rain water got in there. as for as the age of the reagent, it MAY be two years. I only order from Dave Duraleigh. Dave, do you have any idea when I ordered it last?
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    The more I think about this, you should be able to tell from the daytime chlorine loss whether the CYA is around zero or your target of 45.
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    so, the chlorine is always back down to 0 by the end of the day. However, I don't know how much chlorine loss is acceptable during a sunny day.
    The issue I'm having is that I had been assuming my CYA was 35-40 and chlorinating appropriately. Of course my target chlorine level with 0 CYA is lower. I was just bringing the level back up to 5ppm each evening. I really had only been noticing it because we have been swimming sometimes 8 hours a day and the water was slowly losing it's sparkle. I could still see the floor drains. That's why I wasn't too freaked out yet.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

  18. Back To Top    #18
    aussieta's Avatar
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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    with pump running
    i would test and add enough chlorine to reach 5ppm
    then retest in 30 minutes
    there should be no appreciable loss in that short time
    SWG inground peanut shaped eco-bright concrete pool
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    are you taking care of your pool or is the poolshop taking care of you

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    Have you ever tested early in the morning, to see if it is still up near 5, from the previous evening's addition?
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: I don't CYA what I'm doing wrong.

    Okay, tested early-ish this morning. Chlorine held from last night. Then, I kept the pool open for an hour in sun this morning and it is still holding. Probably I have some CYA, just not enough to register on the tube yet.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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