Heater will only work once per day

[gilbee]

Our normal method of operating our spa is as follows:

Set the pump to only circulate spa water
Turn on the heater
Heat to high temp
turn off heater and start recirculating only pool water
Turn on secondary spa jet pump which only recirculates spa water


If we start our heater, it will fire up and heat our spa up to temperature quickly and without fuss....once. After a few hours, the water will cool, and we will want to start up the heater again. I've tried to restart with it recirculating spa and/or pool water, and it will never relight in the same night. Next day, it fires right up. Basically, I get one instance of heating from the heater per day, so I better choose wisely as to what I want to do with it. Any ideas what could cause this weird quirk to happen?

It's a Platinum II by Teledyne-Laars, which I understand is made by Jandy now, and parts for this heater are fairly hard to come by...It's not long for this world, but I'd like to be able to keep using it until we bite the bullet on replacement.

 

[ps0303]

Can you attach a picture of your equipment setup. It makes no sens that the heater won't run after your initial turn on and heat up unless you have something with how it's piped etc.

 

[gilbee]

 

[ps0303]

OK so what you are going to need to do is start looking if the heater even thinks it's being asked to heat the water when you turn it on the second time. Here is a link to the manual for the unit you have, I think.

Pool Heater Teledyne Laars Series 2 ESC 400

Open the front panel on the unit and when you try to light it the second time, see if the ignitor is trying to light.

 

[gilbee]

Oh I know it's not...normally it clicks and then tries to ignite, that doesn't happen second time around

 

[gilbee]

Doesn't even click I mean

 

[OldPoolMan]

You have a strange story. Does your spa temp go down really far. Have you actually to run a test as to the time lapse as to when it will turn on. After 30 minutes, 1 hour, 3 hours, 5 hours. At how long an interlude will it restart, and/ or at what temp?

 

[ps0303]

Just out of curiosity, have you tried resetting the circuit breaker for the heater to see if a power reset makes any difference.

 

[gilbee]

Just out of curiosity, have you tried resetting the circuit breaker for the heater to see if a power reset makes any difference.

I actually tried this last night for the first time ever with no success/change in behavior..I too was thinking maybe some sensor just needed a power cycle.

 

[gilbee]

You have a strange story. Does your spa temp go down really far. Have you actually to run a test as to the time lapse as to when it will turn on. After 30 minutes, 1 hour, 3 hours, 5 hours. At how long an interlude will it restart, and/ or at what temp?

I'm gonna try to quantify things tomorrow...normally we fire up the tub in the late afternoon/early evening, and the next time we try to fire up again is well after dark, and it doesn't fire...temp would definitely be down, since based on my process at that point, pool water would be running through the heater which would be cooler than what's in the tub. Doing it in the daytime will make this easier.

 

[ps0303]

So even if you try to heat the pool, it won't fire up?

 

[gilbee]

Correct

 

[Rocco]

How are you turning the heater off? Are you turning the nob from Spa to off? I would recommend trying the turn the temp nob to a cooler temp until the heater turns off. Maybe something is staying opened or closed when you turn it off. If you turn the temp nob until it turns off maybe it will shut down a different way. This is all just a guess but maybe something worth trying.

 

[gilbee]

I think in the daylight I may have found part of my problem.

So, I added a sheet to my pool stats page in my sig to keep track of the heater testing...feel free to jump there and check it out.

When I went out at an hour, the spa was at 104 (though I know the heater does get it higher, I have seen what looks like 110 before, though I'm guessing since my thermometer only goes to 104), the swg showed it in the mid 90s, and the heater was off. I played with it a bit, no joy. I turned off all the breakers and restarted everything, and at that point I realized the pump basket wasn't completely primed....after priming the basket, I was able to restart the heater. I'm starting to think this is a flow issue, and not a heater issue.

That being said, After I primed it up by allowing all water sources (skimmer, pool main drains, spa drain) to open and all outputs (pool returns and spa returns), when I put it back to spa recirc, I noticed air enter the basket...I've noticed this before, but never gave it a whole lot of thought/concern...but now it concerns me. Air only introduces into the system when I set the pump to pull exclusively from the main drain in the spa...which tells me theres a leak letting air in, and it's probably underground/underconcrete...would that be a good assumption? And if that's the case, enough air is getting in to reduce the flow which is tripping the flow sensor in the heater, which is causing the problems...usually after it doesn't heat in a night, I restart all of the water sources and try immediately after, but don't give it a whole lot of time to recover...

 

[ps0303]

Yes if the heater doesn't sense water pressure it will not fire. Does the pump lose prime when it's running with the valves set for the pool and the pump shuts off?

 

[gilbee]

I'm not sure I understand your question, but when the pump is set to only recirculate spa water (so input is spa drain, output is spa returns), air is introduced into the pump system. If water sources from the pool (skimmers and main drains in the pool only) are what is selected, no air is introduced. When the timer shuts off the pool at the end of the day, a small amount of air does get introduced without the spa being involved, but I believe that to be normal and is immediately dispersed once the pump comes back on. When the spa is set to recirc, the basket starts full, and slowly emptys to the point that you can see the water coming and and going out of the pump basket at the bottom of the basket.

 

[gilbee]

What are my options for suction side leak detection? DIY?

I have another thread here where I thought I had a problem with my heater, but it appears that what I really have is a leak problem that is affecting the flow to the heater. I know that the suction side leak is on the spa floor drain to the main pump; I don't think it's anywhere in the above ground plumbing ( I could be so lucky), but I want to figure out where it is to determine how bad of a repair this will be. If it's under the pool, I'll definitely abandon when I decide to deal with this, if it's just under concrete decking, I may abandon that drain and redo some plumbing to get around it in the same way if under pool, if it's not under concrete, I'll dig it up and repair.


I've seen some videos of leak detection places that pass a camera down the pipe and find it then mark from above ground...are there other methods before going this route? Are there DIY kits out there to do the same thing and end up owning the tooling for future instances?

 

[ps0303]

OK so in pool mode, no air. In spa mode you end up with air in the pump. OK so it looks like maybe that's your issue then. Check it out.

 

[stebs]

How many spa drains do you actually have in the spa?

 

[gilbee]

OK so in pool mode, no air. In spa mode you end up with air in the pump. OK so it looks like maybe that's your issue then. Check it out.

Yup, I think that's the ticket...looking into how to find the leak best now.

- - - Updated - - -

How many spa drains do you actually have in the spa?

I have two---one that is plumbed to the main pump and pulls water into the filter, and a second drain that pulls water through a second pump and gets returned to the spa wall jets. Nowhere does the plumbing for these two drains meet...at least not yet if I have to end up abandoning the existing one to the filter...I'm drawing out on my whiteboard how I would plumb this new evolution so that I can cycle heated water to heat the spa, then flip some valves and have the secondary pump cycle the wall jets in the same effect I have now...