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Thread: pool build/sanitation questions

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    pool build/sanitation questions

    Hi, I finally found a pool builder here in Keller Texas area that we like but have some questions about his quote and equipment choices. They are very well known and respected in the Keller, Southlake area for building quality pools. All of our quotes have been close but this one is 10K more than the rest. This is only builder that mentioned the use of chemical injections that stabilizes the soil movement we have in Keller area ( est $2600 ). They also have designed plumbing that moves more water with much less energy. Average 5 year cost is $4,350 versus $10,465 with other systems. It really seems like they build a strong energy efficient pool that will last but the price just doesn't seem right.

    The other issue I have with this builder is they use a mineral/chlorine puck combo with ozone for sanitation. Unless something has changed with the technology this method will not work for outdoor residential sized pools. In fact it may harm the pool and swimmers over time. I mentioned my fear of the pucks raising CYA and he said it won't happen. How can a highly respected pb use this method for sanitizing the pool? Is the increased water turnover rate able to better use this technology?

    I Love this website and plan to use the BBB method for my pool. I have been wrestling with either SWCG or liquid with pump. Every pb has said SWCG would be a mistake and will ruin my stone, equip etc. and void my warranty. Why can't we come to final conclusion on use of SWCG? LOL. Thanks for reading and if anyone has advise on these methods I would love to hear it. Eric

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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    I don't have much input but I am at the same stage as you. Narrowing down a PB. They are ALL saying (with the exception of one, I think) that SWCG are a mistake, ruin everything around the pool, it will be like living on the coast, everything will rust, etc etc. But I feel like that's just not true, so when they are talking to me about everything else I can't trust them! I want salt and flagstone! People do it!
    Just getting started! Inground freeform gunite pool, 17x32, 3.5-5ft depth, SWCG, French Grey mini pebble Stonescapes, NPT Arctic Lagoon glass tile, raised wall with 3 sheers, Polaris robotic cleaner, Cartridge filter, 550 sqft concrete/Kool-dek; Dig to begin 10/2017!

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    The pool builder is in the *building* business...he ain't a chemist, y'know? Skip the ozone/mineral pack idea and ask him for a stenner chlorine pump or the SWG.

    I don't have fancy stone on my pool deck so can't comment there but....nothing in my pool or equipment seems to be damaged from the use of a SWG that I can tell?
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    This is my second saltwater pool and every pool I own ever again will be saltwater. I also have the added danger of flagstone! And it isn't sealed. After 3 years I have no regrets, no damage or erosion that can be definitively tied to salt and not even close to anything eroding enough to make me think it might need to be replaced anytime soon. Some of my worst flagstone is on paths away from the pool with no saltwater on it ever. Some of my flagstone coping looks exactly the same as it did on day one. Salt is not the problem, it is just natural stone and it does not always stay the same as it gets older. Like me.

    Find a poolbuilder that you like and trust to build a good pool. It doesn't matter what they think or say about water chemistry, you aren't hiring them for that.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    Thank you all for your input. I really wanted salt from the beginning but every builder made it seem like a huge mistake. Anyone on here ever use mineral/ozone?

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    Ozone is not appropriate for outdoor pools, and it only sanitizers the bit of water directly going over the device....doesn't do squat for the rest of the pool when you might need it.
    Also not highly recommended are mineral packs. They add metals to the water which cause staining in some pools, and if its copper blond hair turns green. They're not cheap either.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    Decisions decisions....many many many pool have been built in our area without soil injection and are fine. If the soil wants to move...it'll move. I would make sure that whichever builder you choose uses #4 rebar throughout on 10" centers, reinforcement where necessary and plenty of gunite.

    I'm interested in their plumbing systems but assume they are using larger diameter pvc which is great and relatively inexpensive.

    After reading what many have experienced with SWCG while maintaining good water chemistry I opted for the SWCG and I am using natural stone as well. I plan to seal my coping and take care of it properly.

    Keep us posted
    Owner Builder; Under construction, 17K Gallons SWG IG Geometric; 31X20'; 600sf; 104ft perim; depth 4'-6'. Sun-shelf; bubblers; sheer descents; Dolphin M400; Pentair Intelliflo XF; Clean and Clear 520; Easytouch 8; IC40; 2 color LEDs; TF-100, K-1766, SpeedStir

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    the mineral / ozone system uses silver and copper for sanitation. Neither of them are as effective as chlorine. Metals can leave ugly stains on your plaster and those packs are expensive.

    I have a SWG and havent experienced any corrosion to my equipment or by window sills and or anything else. I also have several friends who have SW pools and they dont have those problems either.

    What it comes down to, is how you care for your pool. Thats pretty much the jist of it IMO.

    I would not have a pool without a SWG because Im too lazy to add liquid chlorine each day. PBs go with whatever some some smooth talking salesman can comvince them to use. And very few PBs know very much about pool chemistry.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    SWG here with travertine & living in a coastal area. We sealed our deck and love the SWG. The water is softer and the SWG makes all the chlorine we need for a busy family! Highly recommended - way, way, way better than pucks or jugs (I've had both). The risk of corrosion from SWG is laughable, IMO. A well maintained pool is a well maintained pool, period. Anyone that pushes one system too hard over another either (1) doesn't understand one or the other or (2) has a financial reason to do so. I guess what I'm saying is one more vote for SWG. Drop the ozone.

    Bigger pipes = greater flow = more efficiency. Combine with an efficient VS pump for even better efficiency. You'll pay a little more upfront, but can recoup after several years on your electricity costs. I suggest doing some napkin math to decide if the upgrades are worth it vs. your expected time in your home.
    COMPLETED BUILD THREAD - 15'x29' rectangular offset shotcrete pool; 14,100 gal; 5'x7' raised spa with 400k btu fire feature; 7' spillover; 25' leuder stone raised bond wall w/waterfall; Pentair SWG; Pentair VS (pool); Pentair 3/4hp feature pump; 1hp spa blower; Pentair Cartridge filter; Pentair “Easy Touch 8” wireless; Dolphin Oasis Z5 robot; Solar Hydronics iSwim solar panels; Mansard Screen Enclosure; walnut travertine deck; 1 very happy kiddo.

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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    Hi Eric, We experienced the same thing with SWCG and PB's here in the Central Texas area. FWIW we have noticed that most of the complaints of salt water deterioration of stone came from Texas. The way it was explained to us is it had to do with a combination of softer stone, our water type and the drying of the salt water on the stone expanding and breaking apart the smaller softer layers of the rock. All of the pool builders warned us, and not because they had a financial reason to, I am sure they all wanted to sell us a ~$1500 - $2000 SWCG full setup. One PB even had photos of coping damage after 2 years that they attributed to salt water. They were all requiring a waiver or at the very least giving a verbal warning about the warranty when using salt.

    We liked our stone choices and without moving to something much more expensive decided to stick with them and choose a Stenner pump instead of the SWCG. The PB of course doesn't know anything about the pump and I will be installing it after they leave. The way I understand it this will be almost the convenience of the SWCG without the salt risk and without the PB being able to use that card in the event of a warranty issue.

    All that being said you will find plenty (most) of people that never have any trouble with salt and their stone. It seems downplayed a bit here but you will also find people here and elsewhere that have attributed their stone problems with the salt. For us the conclusion was that it doesn't hurt many many pools but I don't want to be that pool in which it destroyed a few thousand dollars worth of stone work so we compromised on the Stenner.

    Anyway, I know it doesn't follow most of the crowd here but that is just my $.02.
    Gunite Phase || 16500 gal FreeForm 33'x18' IG, 89 perim, 491 sq ft. || Blue Surf Pebble Sheen || Pentair Intelliflo VS || Pentail C&C 520 || 2 Pentair Intellibrite 5G
    Previous Pool || 13500 gal. FreeForm 31'x19' IG, 87' perim, 481 sq ft.|| Pebble Sheen || Pentair IntelliFlo VS || Pentair C&C 420 || Pentair Intellibrite 5G

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    JayBauman's Avatar
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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    This is my second saltwater pool and every pool I own ever again will be saltwater. I also have the added danger of flagstone! And it isn't sealed. After 3 years I have no regrets, no damage or erosion that can be definitively tied to salt and not even close to anything eroding enough to make me think it might need to be replaced anytime soon. Some of my worst flagstone is on paths away from the pool with no saltwater on it ever. Some of my flagstone coping looks exactly the same as it did on day one. Salt is not the problem, it is just natural stone and it does not always stay the same as it gets older. Like me.

    Find a poolbuilder that you like and trust to build a good pool. It doesn't matter what they think or say about water chemistry, you aren't hiring them for that.
    +1

    I'm on my 2nd house with a SWG pool. I'm really digging' the set-it-and-forget-it pool maintenance!
    23' x 37' IG 18.5k gallon SWG w/ raised spa, Build Thread -->Here
    Wet Edge® Pearl Matrix®, Hayward® SwimClear™ 525 ft², Hayward® Goldline Controls® PS-8
    4x Hayward® TriStar™ pumps, Paramount PCC2000® ICS, TF-100 w/Speedstir

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    Cool Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBauman View Post
    +1

    I'm on my 2nd house with a SWG pool. I'm really digging' the set-it-and-forget-it pool maintenance!
    Thank you all for the advice. I'm going to tell them to remove the minerals/ozone and go liquid till I get tired of it then install my own SWCG

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    JayBauman's Avatar
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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eberk View Post
    Thank you all for the advice. I'm going to tell them to remove the minerals/ozone and go liquid till I get tired of it then install my own SWCG
    Is automation part of your pool design? If so, due a bit of diligence and make sure you're set up so that you can easily bolt on a SWG when you're ready. It might add a bit of cost now, but it will definitely be cheaper when you pull the trigger.
    23' x 37' IG 18.5k gallon SWG w/ raised spa, Build Thread -->Here
    Wet Edge® Pearl Matrix®, Hayward® SwimClear™ 525 ft², Hayward® Goldline Controls® PS-8
    4x Hayward® TriStar™ pumps, Paramount PCC2000® ICS, TF-100 w/Speedstir

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    Most SWGs have a blank/bypass spacer available that you can have them install then you just unscrew the unions for the blank and install the cell.

    The blank/bypass spacer for a Pentair SWG is 520588.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: pool build/sanitation questions

    The answer to stone pitting may be stone selection & proper seal technique/routine. DuPont makes a great product that they warranty for five years, but I anticipate 3-4 years of actual protection before re-seal.
    COMPLETED BUILD THREAD - 15'x29' rectangular offset shotcrete pool; 14,100 gal; 5'x7' raised spa with 400k btu fire feature; 7' spillover; 25' leuder stone raised bond wall w/waterfall; Pentair SWG; Pentair VS (pool); Pentair 3/4hp feature pump; 1hp spa blower; Pentair Cartridge filter; Pentair “Easy Touch 8” wireless; Dolphin Oasis Z5 robot; Solar Hydronics iSwim solar panels; Mansard Screen Enclosure; walnut travertine deck; 1 very happy kiddo.

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