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Thread: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA and,

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    SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA and,

    Yes, I'm new and I too have been lurking for the past month and where do I begin: it started with a simple google search for how to treat staining in the pool. Never had algae, cleaned debris daily, checked chlorine and ph regularly but my teenage daughter said the spa looked gross from the staining. For years (20!) I had always attributed the tea/brown staining to the two HUGE oak trees that border my yard. Literally 10 feet from the pool. 2 Oak trees, tannins, need I say more?

    As with all the others who found the Ascorbic Acid treatment on this site, I too said “no way, vitamin C for the pool?” Can’t tell you how hard the wife laughed at me. Quick run to Target, 100 count Vit C, place a couple on the pool steps, OMG. For 20 years I have been scrubbing the @%* out of that pool and Vitamin C, are you kidding me? Ran around the whole pool dropping those little suckers in! Next stop, Amazon, 5lbs of AA. Brought down Cl to 0, Ph to 7 dumped it ALL in. 90% stain free. Having drunk the water, I wanted 100% (pool had been re-plastered 5-6 years earlier and I wanted that new plaster look). Ran to Leslie’s (I know) got some “concentrated AA” dumped that in and voila! 100% stain free! New Pool! Dropped in the Jack’s Purple Stuff . I’m done. Right…next day cloudy! Ugh. Time to go to school….

    Jasonlion/Duraleigh/Chem Geek, instead of saying “patience” tell members to buy a bottle of wine, drink the whole thing and just look at the pool. Believe me, last thing you want to do at that point is mess with your pool. Well, brought chlorine and Ph up real slow and 2 weeks later, the pool is stain free and crystal clear but the mind sure is cloudy, but the wine worked (case of wine, literally). So, K-2006 here we come and I know what’s coming after reading for weeks about the chlorine tabs and all the other junk that has been in my pool (chem. Geek: tabs and stainless steel don’t mix well do they). So here’s the damage:

    FC: 5
    CC: <.5
    Ph: 7.2
    TA: 110
    CYA: 150 (assuming the 50/50 pool/tap water works)
    CH: who knows, stopped counting after 600, it’s high.
    3200 salt.

    I know, with CYA that high I need FC of 7. I have been putting 1 gal chlorine every night getting me to FC of 5 and by end of next day it’s dropping to 1-1.5. Pool is algae free so I can live with FC at 5 knowing I have to stay on it with the chlorine. If I have to shock, with that much chlorine someone will think I’m building a bomb.

    Ok, now for the thanks: this site and you moderators are awesome to give your time and advice for free! Thank you! Around here, we call it eating crow (not sure if they wife heard that).

    I know the only way to bring down the CYA and CH is to drain. I just can’t do it; I live in SoCal and we just can’t waste it. I am hoping over the next 6-12 months I can lower it thru backwashing filter, evaporation, diverting rain etc. I know better now than to use tabs but a gallon a day, chlorine. Ugh.

    Now here’s the rub: my Jandy 1400 has been slowing dying. Since Jan, been getting the 120/121 codes. I’ll clean the cell, it’ll work, then same thing, general fault 120/121 error. Checked volts to cell and it’s 20-24. Does this mean board(s) are good and a 5 year 1400 has seen its useful life? I hope so cause just purchased a new cell/sensor/dc cord. My hope is the new cell will reduce the amount of chlorine I’ll have to lug while my CYA and CH hopefully come down.


    1. Will the high CYA and CH reduce useful life of the cell? I know to clean that thing every month to remove the calcium which I know will build up is there anything else I should do.
    2. Any other suggestions for a new cell with my water?
    3. Any other issues I should be concerned with?
    4. Is the Jack's Purple stuff the right stuff every week? I was wondering about the Jack's Magenta stuff?


    Again, this site and everyone who gives their time and knowledge are just amazing and greatly appreciated.
    20k gal 14 x 40 gunite, raised spa with spillway, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump
    Hayward pro grid DE, Raypak RP 2100 heater
    Purelink swg salt cell & Aqualink RS one touch control
    Barracuda G3 pool sweep, Taylor K-2006 test kit
    "The bigger the hammer, the smaller the brain!"

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    First, glad you found us and were able to get off to a fantastic start
    I would highly urge you to try to get your FC up higher due to the higher CYA. But, I am afraid given the FC drop you are seeing in 1 day that there is already something lurking in the water .... with a CYA that high, the FC should not be dropping that fast.

    To your questions:
    1. The high CH combined with letting the pH rise too high will increase the amount of scaling in the SWG cell. This will reduce its output. And every time you have to do an acid wash (which should really NEVER be needed if the pool is balanced) you are damaging the metal blades and shortening the cells life.

    2. We recommend sizing a SWG for 1.5-3 times the size of your pool. You SWG is about a 36k cell, so you are around 1.8. Ideally a larger SWG could help as it would need to run less.

    3. Yeah, I am not convinced the water is in as good or shape as you think. I would raise the FC up to around 20ppm and Perform the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to verify if something is in the water consuming your FC.

    4. Not sure on this one.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    Hi Jason and thanks for the quick reply. After posting, I thought the same thing. When looking at the pool last night with the light on it looked so nice with the stains 100% gone, I dumped in a little over a gallon, but fell asleep before I could test! This morning, it's up to 10ppm. After reading your reply, I was going to shoot for a balance between 5-10 ppm but you guys are so knowledgeable and that word "lurking" keeps popping up, I KNOW I will have a mess if i get an algae bloom. I will check pool calc to see how much more cl I need to bring it up to 20 ppm this morning and with the full sun will test again tonight and bring it back up tonight to see what I am losing overnight. As to the cell and scaling, my cell is really easy to get to and it only takes a few minutes to disassemble. I will spray it with hose weekly to limit any acid washing. Thanks
    20k gal 14 x 40 gunite, raised spa with spillway, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump
    Hayward pro grid DE, Raypak RP 2100 heater
    Purelink swg salt cell & Aqualink RS one touch control
    Barracuda G3 pool sweep, Taylor K-2006 test kit
    "The bigger the hammer, the smaller the brain!"

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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    Jason, could the loss of chlorine be the remnants of the AA treatment. I will overnight test this weekend to see if the loss continues.
    The pool cleared after I backwashed the filter numerous times. I also use the cellulose fiber and not the DE; any input on this? Thanks
    20k gal 14 x 40 gunite, raised spa with spillway, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump
    Hayward pro grid DE, Raypak RP 2100 heater
    Purelink swg salt cell & Aqualink RS one touch control
    Barracuda G3 pool sweep, Taylor K-2006 test kit
    "The bigger the hammer, the smaller the brain!"

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    The AA could contribute to FC loss, but should stop rather quickly after the FC is added. No issue with using cellulose instead of DE.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    Thanks. Just installed the new 1400, sensor and DC cord. Initially at 2400 rpm I was getting an intermittent flow/no flow. Took cell off, looked at it and it was ok, put it back on and now working a ok. I also bumped up the rpm settings to 2600 thinking this may have been the cause too. After the first removal, i tried running it at my lowest setting, 1500 rpm and it worked. Don't know what to make of this. I don't have a flow meter so I have no idea what the flow rate is.

    1. Where can i find info to compare rpm to flow rate.
    2. If you know (I haven't searched it yet, but will after this post) what is the minimum flow rate I need to have the cell producing

    The variable pump was installed about 3-4 weeks ago to save electricity and when I started the AA, i was still experimenting with run times. Jason, I know each pool and set up is different but given my water conditions, any suggestions or referrals where to search on the run time issue given the amount of chlorine I need will be appreciated. I know the swg won't generate all the cl I need, but it may lower the amt of chlorine i have to lug.
    btw, wife blew a fuse when I told her I may have to drain 47% of the water. That's not in my foreseeable. So any suggestions/referrals will be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks
    20k gal 14 x 40 gunite, raised spa with spillway, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump
    Hayward pro grid DE, Raypak RP 2100 heater
    Purelink swg salt cell & Aqualink RS one touch control
    Barracuda G3 pool sweep, Taylor K-2006 test kit
    "The bigger the hammer, the smaller the brain!"

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    1. That is not as easy as you would think as all pools are different. But, the flow rate generally does not matter. Just run at the lowest speed where everything (like the SWG) is still working.

    2. I don't know. The Hayward is about 15 GPM.

    Read this first: Determine Pump Run Time

    There is no reason that your SWG should not be able to provide all the FC you need. It should be able to provide 1.25 pounds (20 oz) of chlorine gas running at 100% in 24 hours. In your pool that would be 7.5ppm. Normally a pool needs about 2-4ppm of FC added per day. So if you ran at 100% for 12 hours, that would add 3.75ppm which should be more than you need so you could lower the run time. Or run longer (although more expensive) and turn the % output down.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    The Jandy's have a higher than average flow rate requirement 30 GPM minimum.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    The Jandy's have a higher than average flow rate requirement 30 GPM minimum.
    WOW I would not be happy with that as I would never be able to use low speed on my pump.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    I had a lot of problems when running on low speed on my pump when I had the Aquapure. I had to make sure the pump was on high speed when the solar turned on and without automation that was a little bit of fiddling with the time of day, normal weather patterns, and adding another timer for the speed selection. Since I switched to the AquaRite the flow hasn't been an issue and it has worked without a single hiccup.

    I have seen several reports from people who service the Jandy's that the new sensor is much better than all the other sensors.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    Hi Ping and jblizzle and thanks for the input.
    So, my fc loss is minimal, last night about 1.5 and this was after several dips in the evening. As to the run time and flow rate, after installing the new swg, (directions were a little confusing about removing the "board" for the old tri sensor) I figured out it was the little adapter plug in for the old sensor system that had to be removed, (hope I don't jink this) and the swg is running beautiful. I am hopeful the new sensor with only 2 sensors is an improvement over the older model (replaced several over the last 5 years).

    I have 3 settings for the pump; 1500 (about 240 watts); 2500 rpm and 3300 rpm. The swg runs fine on the lowest setting. I run high speed from 6am to 7am; filter mode 7-10 am and 10am to 6pm at lowest speed all with swg., Yesterday in 90 degree heat only lost 2ppm in the day so it looks like no lugging chlorine. I then run filter mode 6-8 pm, highest setting 8-9 pm with swg and no swg from 9pm to 4am on the lowest setting to make sure i have enough turnover. Using this schedule, I save about $75 a month on my bill.

    I figure if my cl stays above 12 ppm with this schedule, I think I am going to stay with this rather than go with higher cl given my CYA. Having all the stains removed after the AA and the chance the higher cl may cause re-staining, i will wait and see and hope i get no algae blooms, if I see anything, I have 4 gallons on hand.

    btw, maybe someone could consider an edit for the AA treatment and add a blip not to use the scented or no splash bleach there. I think most people are like me, once they see that a Vitamin C pill will remove stains, it's off to the races, even though we should read more. I used a little no splash and have some bubbles but as beautiful as my pool looks now after the stain removal; it's inconsequential and I know it will go away
    20k gal 14 x 40 gunite, raised spa with spillway, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump
    Hayward pro grid DE, Raypak RP 2100 heater
    Purelink swg salt cell & Aqualink RS one touch control
    Barracuda G3 pool sweep, Taylor K-2006 test kit
    "The bigger the hammer, the smaller the brain!"

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    A 1.5ppm FC loss in an OCLT is a fail ... Assuming you followed the procedure correctly.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    A 1.5ppm FC loss in an OCLT is a fail ... Assuming you followed the procedure correctly.
    I tested before we ended up swimming in the evening, I was thinking this could have caused the drop and thought it an acceptable loss.
    20k gal 14 x 40 gunite, raised spa with spillway, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump
    Hayward pro grid DE, Raypak RP 2100 heater
    Purelink swg salt cell & Aqualink RS one touch control
    Barracuda G3 pool sweep, Taylor K-2006 test kit
    "The bigger the hammer, the smaller the brain!"

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    Re: SWG with high CYA & CH, but don't drink the water, you'll buy a k2006, start AA a

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    A 1.5ppm FC loss in an OCLT is a fail ... Assuming you followed the procedure correctly.
    I tested before we ended up swimming in the evening, I was thinking this could have caused the drop and thought it an acceptable loss, 1.5 being the cut off? I am almost 3 weeks after an AA so I also thought maybe there is some AA residual too. In any event, shock is not an option b/c i do not want those stains to return. We're staying out of the pool tonight and I am testing again tonight.
    20k gal 14 x 40 gunite, raised spa with spillway, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump
    Hayward pro grid DE, Raypak RP 2100 heater
    Purelink swg salt cell & Aqualink RS one touch control
    Barracuda G3 pool sweep, Taylor K-2006 test kit
    "The bigger the hammer, the smaller the brain!"

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