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Thread: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

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    Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    i have 110v running from the fuse box to my jandy iaqualink controller.

    The 110v was connected to a relay that ran the pool light. I have temporarily disconnected the pool light so I can control an outlet to run a stenner bleach pump. I'll add a new relay for the pump in a week or two and connect the light back to its original relay.

    I have run a hot lead from the switched side of the relay to the new outlet. I connected the neutral line to the neutral that is supplying the jandy control center's transformer and ground to the controller box ground. When I place a load on the new outlet after turning it on with the iaqualink an upstream gfci pops. I have run a lot of outlets, lights, and other 110v electricity but I am having trouble with this install.

    I originally added a second gfci outlet but my research showed issues with wiring a second gfci into the same circuit. I tried a regular outlet and have the same popping behavior from the upstream gfci. I've obviously created a ground fault but not sure where. Do I need to open the upstream gfci and run a ground from that box to the new outlet?

    Any help will be appreciated.

    I'll upload pictures in the follow on threads.
    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    Upstream gfci outlet for pool lights

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437708702.579245.jpg


    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    Neutral connection shows neutral coming into controller box from upstream gfci, neutral to transformer, and my red "neutral" line. I know, I'll replace the line with a white line as soon as I get back from work travel.
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437708836.283222.jpg


    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    Connection to the relay, red line goes to new outlet. The masking tape label says neutral because I switched lines when troubleshooting just to see if connected the wires wrong. I knew I didn't because I traced them with the multimeter but I'm grasping at straws right now. The purple line is the old 110v line back to the pool light.



    .ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437708953.690009.jpg


    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    Outlet. This is not the final install, just troubleshooting. Nothing is shorted inside, I've metered everything.ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437709129.326295.jpg


    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    Why is neutral connected to the relay?
    It would sure help identifying more of the wires.
    You stated that the neutral to the new box is a wire nut connection to the upstream GFCI and transformer common. So, why is the red wire going to the relay labeled neutral from the new box?
    Which wire is 120v hot to the box?
    Is yellow to the relay 120v hot?
    Where is the light's neutral?
    Is the pump set for 120v or 240v?
    24k gallon inground vinyl liner pool, 8'-3' depth, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, basic 5 chem kit.
    Hayward: DE-60 filter, Superpump VS, AquaRite salt chlorinator w/T-Cell 15, TigerShark QC robot. Jacuzzi hot tub ~350gal. Air blower type, w/8 jets.

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    Neutral wasn't connected to the relay, I switched it when troubleshooting and took the picture at that time. It's back to neutral in the wire nut.

    Red wire to neutral is temporary until I can run a white wire and make it pretty. I'm headed out of town and trying to get this running for a week.

    Yellow to relay is 120v hot from the upstream gfci.

    The lights neutral is in the upstream gfci box in the first picture.

    I'll reconnect everything and take pics in the morning with labels so it's less confusing.




    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    The new neutral HAS to be connected back thru the neutral on the load side of the GFCI. The best I can decipher from your description is that it is not connected that way. The ground wire in a GFCI does not come into play in any way. The hot and neutral lines on the load side of the GFCI have to be connected that way to ensure the GFCI can properly monitor the current flow/return.

    If you could, can you do a simple line diagram showing how you currently have it wired? You do not have to show the grounds.

    I will address some of the code violations I see once you get it up and running.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    Dan, I had the same thought. "neutral wire nut" sounds like it's not coming from the upstream gfci.
    15k in-ground plaster, Hayward C900 cartridge, 3/4hp single speed pump, Barracuda G2 cleaner, TF-100

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    It looks like you have a open relay ( first picture ) you can use ( right side of relay), if it is like my EasyTouch. You can run a hot jumper from the other relay hot side to the left side and then the load ( right side ) to the new GFCI plug and then ground to ground. That is how I was able to wire my Stenner to my EasyTouch and be able to control it by Easytouch remote. I really need to take a picture of mine to post since this question has come up before.
    8500 gallon IG Pebble Sheen with Spa. 3hp Pentair VS Intelliflo ( pool ), 3/4 hp WhisperFlo ( water feature ),Pentair Racer, 400K Pentair heater, Pentair 500sqft Cartridge filter, EasyTouch 8, Stenner 45mp2 15gallon wired to ET8

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    I haven't opened the upstream GFCI and checked to make sure the neutral is connected to the wire nut. I'll do that when I get home.

    Thanks for the feedback and help.
    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    The hot to the transformer is from another source, you can't tie that neutral in with the load side of the GFCI.

    What does 220 mean on the box sending power to the transformer? I'm assuming that's 220v power source that feeds other equipment?

    Basically your GFCI is an amp clamp around hot and neutral. Power in = power out. Kirchhoff.
    If you have hot from another source and neutral from the GFCI load side, then power in does not = power out, so there is a current difference.
    24k gallon inground vinyl liner pool, 8'-3' depth, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, basic 5 chem kit.
    Hayward: DE-60 filter, Superpump VS, AquaRite salt chlorinator w/T-Cell 15, TigerShark QC robot. Jacuzzi hot tub ~350gal. Air blower type, w/8 jets.

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    The box labeled 220 is where all the lines that are combined on other relays to run the 230V pumps. I labeled it wrong. In the first picture the gray box is below the brown GFCI box and labeled as master power.
    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    '33 nailed it. There is something weird with the way that is wired. The neutral is definitely causing the problem the way it is wired as the GFCI is seeing more current coming back than is going out. If you can get a power feed to the transformer from the GFCI then the problem will go away. I too, am confused as to what the 220 box ix doing.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    You have two options.
    1. Tie the black wire from the transformer to the hot load side of the GFCI.

    2. If the transformer has a multi-tap primary, you may be able to use the 240v primary side. Remove the white wire from the transformer connected to the GFCI, and connect it to the other leg of the 240v source. Just make sure to change the tap lead on the transformer, and color the wire black or wrap it with black tape.
    24k gallon inground vinyl liner pool, 8'-3' depth, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, basic 5 chem kit.
    Hayward: DE-60 filter, Superpump VS, AquaRite salt chlorinator w/T-Cell 15, TigerShark QC robot. Jacuzzi hot tub ~350gal. Air blower type, w/8 jets.

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    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    I tied the black transformer wire to the hot load on the gfci, yellow wire. It popped immediately when the power was restored.

    I don't understand option two.

    Uploaded a bunch of pictures showing the inside of the two wire boxes.

    I can draw a diagram if it would make it easier to understand.

    Thank you in advance.


    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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    Re: Adding controlled outlet, need gfci advice

    20/22K Gallons, in ground, pebbletech, Jandy DE 60 filter, variable speed jandy vs flo pro pump, pool built 2005?, Waterfall (pile of rocks), spa with waterfall, Jandy Stealth pump on waterfall, sandstone coping, stenner chlorine pump and 20 gallon tank, working on a muratic acid stenner system this winter, TF100 test kit

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