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Thread: First test, new pool, just filled

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    travisr100's Avatar
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    First test, new pool, just filled

    7:22 am

    82.7 degrees
    Ph >8.2

    FC 0
    CC .5
    CH 100
    TA 270-320


    Ok, so I just did my first set of tests. Pool finished filling last night.

    My pH looked just a bit pinker than the max 8.2 on the block. I'd guess 8.3.

    Chlorine tests were as I expected.

    The CH and TA are puzzling. They seem way off. The CH test seemed fairly straight forward and don't think I screwed it up. The TA test I did as instructed and wiped the tip with a damp cloth after each drop. It says it's supposed to turn red. At drop 27 and after it would turn magenta for half a second at the top of the vortex then back to green. At drop 32 it definitely stayed magenta. I added a few more drops looking for more of a red tint but just got a deeper magenta.

    I used the SpeedStir. That thing sure is handy.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    Let's work on the pH, first.... please test (if possible) your fill water. That may give a clue as to why things look a bit wonky.


    Get some full strength Muriatic Acid and aim for pH of 7.2 or 7.4 from an assumed pH of 8.0. Post your results......

    Also, in the interim, I'd be adding about 3 ppm/ day of chlorine to the pool. Once pH is under control, we can look at TA and get CH and CYA under control...

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    lefty51's Avatar
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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    Good morning, sounds like your all ready up to speed. I didn't notice your CYA reading ?
    First get some chlorine in there so we don't get an algae outbreak.

    The PH and TA are high, your filled with tap water right ? use pool math to figure how much acid to add to bring them down.

    I'm not sure what your pool surface is or if it's new but high TA and low CL is not a good combo for plaster. Since I am not familiar with these kind of surfaces, I will let someone more knowledgeable comment.
    Si -central Mo. 32' x 16' -- 3'4" to 6' deep Vinyl liner - 16,500 Gals : Triton II filter -Duraglass 2 hp pump - 1 speed : SI-30 salt generator
    TF-100 with speedstir

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    Brand new. Surface in sig.

    Will test tap out of the faucet when I get home this evening. That's what it was filed with. PB is coming today to start up pumps and put in his dose of start up chemicals which for warranty purposes I'll have to live with. Will find out what he's putting in and how much and test again tonight.

    Didn't do cya test because all the posts I read said not to bother on freshly filled pool with no cya added yet.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    That was my next question, since it is new let PB do his thing so you keep warranty intact. Good for you, ask what he's putting in and why. I hope he will look at your numbers or have numbers comparable, since I assume he will address PH, TA, & CH as part of startup process.

    It great you are starting out the right way, so you can take control going forward, and yes the speedstir is my favorite


    P.S -once he gets things going, then you can test and adjust accordingly
    Si -central Mo. 32' x 16' -- 3'4" to 6' deep Vinyl liner - 16,500 Gals : Triton II filter -Duraglass 2 hp pump - 1 speed : SI-30 salt generator
    TF-100 with speedstir

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    They put in 3x64 oz bottles of something called "startup-tek" yesterday. I looked at the bottle. Said to use 1 bottle per 10k gallons. So they put 30k gallons worth in my pool. Plaster company put it in when they started the fill

    Lefty, yep, gonna let him go for it and ask what and how much he puts in. I've got my Stenner bleach tank ready to plumb and wire in once he turns it over to me.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    Quote Originally Posted by travisr100 View Post
    They put in 3x64 oz bottles of something called "startup-tek" yesterday. I looked at the bottle. Said to use 1 bottle per 10k gallons. So they put 30k gallons worth in my pool. Plaster company put it in when they started the fill

    Lefty, yep, gonna let him go for it and ask what and how much he puts in. I've got my Stenner bleach tank ready to plumb and wire in once he turns it over to me.
    You got this handled, I can tell

    When it comes to plaster and especially new startups, I'm out of my element. But... you and I both know they are out there reading our posts and one of those experts will jump in here and enlighten us both
    Si -central Mo. 32' x 16' -- 3'4" to 6' deep Vinyl liner - 16,500 Gals : Triton II filter -Duraglass 2 hp pump - 1 speed : SI-30 salt generator
    TF-100 with speedstir

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    OK, finally got home and had a chance to test. Been a long day. As an aside, for any of you in aviation, I got my sea plane rating today. Anyway...

    I talked to the PB this afternoon. Unfortunately I wasn't able to be at the house when he showed up. He told me that he put in 5 bottles of acid (640 oz) and put 3 pucks in my skimmer and filled my in line chlorinator with pucks. He tells me that's all he did. Here were my tests tonight.

    7/22
    7:46 PM
    88.3 degrees
    pH 6.7
    FC 3.5
    CC 0
    CH 100
    TA 110
    CYA 0

    So it looks like the TA came way down. I assume that was from the acid? Have to go read up on that again.

    Puzzling is that going to pool math and putting in my morning pH of 8.3 and my pH tonight of 6.7 it says I would have had to add 224 oz of acid. He put in 640. Could it really be rising that fast?

    The CYA test registered zero which isn't surprising from what I've read. I believe the CYA takes a while to show up on the test and at the moment I need it anyway. So I'm not too worried about the pucks being there temporarily. I was surprised however that the pucks took the FC up to 3.5 so fast. Maybe having them in the skimmer like that dissolves them that quickly.

    I also tested water out of the tap tonight so I could see what the fill water was like before it hit the pool. Results...

    pH 7.8
    CH 75
    TA 260

    So those tap water numbers look pretty close to in line with what I would have expected from the initial test this morning.

    I had the concrete pad poured today to hold my Stenner tanks for the bleach and acid. Unfortunately I only have a single relay open at the moment. I'm replacing a fixed speed pump with a VS pump for my water features so that should free up a relay. I also went ahead and ordered the ridiculously expensive relay bank, $500, just to have some future expandability. Hayward rep is coming out tomorrow to configure the system as it is currently plumbed and wired. After he leaves I can get to work on wiring up these Stenner tanks this weekend. I found 5 5 gallon containers for transporting bleach and have a local chemical company that has it in bulk. I believe they said it was 10.5%??? $1.68 per gallon. Upon going to fill up my jugs today they told me they were out and getting more in tomorrow.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    7/23
    7:33 AM
    85.3 degrees
    pH 6.8
    FC 7
    CC 0
    TA 120

    For grins I tried one of the test strips my PB left. They seem to agree with the above numbers. I would have expected my pH to rise more overnight. Maybe my pH was actually much lower than my test last night indicated and the test simply isn't really accurate below 6.8?

    I didn't test for CH again since that appears to be pretty stable and I haven't added anything that would change it.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    I just watched a video that says on the TA test I should continue adding drops until no further color change is observed. I've been stopping as soon as it turns magenta and stays magenta. Which is correct?
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    My first time chiming-in on this thread (hope you don't mind) and just wanted to give you a couple other items to consider:
    - Besides the new plaster driving-up PH, remember any aeration you have will do the same. So water falls, features, even jets pointing upwards will add to the PH rise.
    - You probably already saw this page, but since I didn't see it mentioned in the thread I wanted to make sure: Pool School - Start-up New Plaster
    - You're correct about CYA taking time (about a week) to register.
    - One thing I've seen about PBs, is that "some" PBs don't understand the chemical issues either - just like the pool store. Once their main part is done (construction), someone walks around the pool n a leisurely fashion pouring-in acid, conditioner, and bleach at estimated levels - much like grabbing a handful of salt in the kitchen as opposed to using a measuring cup. That always worried me. Keep the best notes y ou can about anything you see them do (i.e. the overdose of Startup-Tek) in case there is ever a problem later.
    - Once you and the PB "cut the cord" you can move forward the TFP way all on your own.
    - Other than your pH being low this morning, which I assume will rise quickly, your numbers look quite good. Nice to see your FC at a string level as well to keep algae at bay.

    You sound like you're doing well, and you have the best test kit out there, so keep up the good work. Post pics some day so we can see this little oasis you've created.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    As for the TA, some things I picked-up on:
    - When FC is high (yours really isn't right now), you can add an extra drop of R-0007 to neutralize the high chlorine
    - Of course you add the 5 standard drops of R-0008 which makes the water green
    - As you start the R-0009 drops, you might see the color go from bright green to purple-ish, grey, before becoming pink/red/magenta. The key is to ensure that you record the last drop it took before it reached it's final (red/pink-ish) color - and magenta is a fair description of a cross between "Barbie pink and red". Through repetition you'll get it down and know what drops no longer effected how red/pink the water got.

    Hope that helps.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    Texas, do I not need to bring up the CH at this point? I have read that new plaster startup thread but to some extent I'm at the mercy of my PB for now. Really annoyed with the pucks since I can't really measure what's going in the pool. My PB is using the acid startup with far more acid than that thread calls for. He also threw in the robotic cleaner yesterday. Will try to post pics when I get to he office. I do have a spa spillover which is definitely aerating the water.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    Totally understand. Unfortunately, if you take (chemical) matters into your own hands, the PB will walk away from any warranty issues. There's really only two things I would do if I were in your position:
    1 - Keep really good notes on everything they did during the break-in period
    2 - In a nice way, try to convey your concerns about certain "current" levels (i.e. low CH), the amount/type of chemicals added (acid, amount of Startup-Tek), and the noted effects from each.

    Some PBs are great to talk to and will reassure you on everything they have done. Others are just stubborn and set in their ways. Either way, you don't want them to say you voided their work by doing something they did not recommend during the break-in. Try to keep those communication lines open and perhaps you'll get through to them.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    My PB seems fairly open. He texted me and said I needed to go to the pool store and get "pucks or whatever I was going to use for chlorine." I've had the bleach discussion with him already. He leaves town for 9 days on Friday for vacation. Those pucks are coming out when he does. Should I raise the CH at this point?

    I got one of these which really makes filling the test vials easy and accurate.



    And here are some pics of the pool from this morning.






    In the above pic you can kind of see the green tint I'm talking about.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    I happen to be at work and my servers won't let me view the pics you attached (sorry). But for the CH, if your PB has no objections, and I saw nothing prohibiting CH adjustment on the plaster start-up page, then I would begin slowly raising it to the level noted on the Pool School - Recommended Levels, which is a minimum of 250. The Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals page can help as well.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    Thanks. I'll work on raising CH.

    Also, is there any good way to calculate how much each 3" trichlor tab will raise my CYA? I'd like to just let the trichlor tabs that are in the dispenser and skimmer dissolve then switch to bleach. But with the delay in adding CYA and being able to measure it, I'm not sure how to calculate how much additional CYA I should put in a sock to get up to 40 PPM.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    OK, next question. If I go to pool math and set targets of

    FC 5
    PH 7.6
    TA 100
    CH 300
    CYA 40

    It gives me a CSI of .2. If I target CH at 200 it gives me .06. Shouldn't I be trying to target as close to 0 as possible on the CSI? Slightly confused.
    IG 13,000 gal, WetEdge Prism Matrix Indigo Blue, Hayward C4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Ecostar VS main pump, Hayward Tristar VS feature pump, Hayward OmniLogic, Hayward Sense & Dispense (pH only), Stenner 45MPHP22 bleach, Hayward H400FDN Heater, Hayward Color UCL lights, Pentair LED Bubblers. TF-100 XL test kit. Test Results. Build Thread.

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    travisr FIRST congrats on new rating !!!!
    I had to raise my CYA up recently from "0" after all the rains we had earlier in year. Look at the bottom of pool math and insert in the tool how many ounces of pucks you have added ( normally 8 oz peer 3 inch puck ) and it will tell you how much it will increase CYA. I turned up my feeder all the way and it dissolved them in a few days. Might as well using up those pucks! I also went through the new pool start up but with no help from PB. TFP helped me get everything started and running crystal clear. I also have a spa with the spillway and the water features on my wall also. Alot of aereation so kepping pH correct took awhile but has stabilized in the last 4 months. The Stenner makes life alot easier! Where are you getting your 10% bleach from?
    8500 gallon IG Pebble Sheen with Spa. 3hp Pentair VS Intelliflo ( pool ), 3/4 hp WhisperFlo ( water feature ),Pentair Racer, 400K Pentair heater, Pentair 500sqft Cartridge filter, EasyTouch 8, Stenner 45mp2 15gallon wired to ET8

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    Re: First test, new pool, just filled

    Travis, to answer one of your questions about stabilizer/CYA, since you've been using pucks, I'm going to assume your CYA is at least 10 (or will be), so I went from 10 to a new target of 40. Poolmath showed for your size pool needing 54 oz (3 lbs 6 oz) of granular stabilizer. You're familiar with the sock near a return jet method right? If you were worried about going over a CYA of 40 based on previous chemicals added, you could cut that in half and reassess the numbers in about a week.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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