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Thread: electrical wizards!!???

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    Question electrical wizards!!???

    kay! so I installs me new Hayward 3/4hp pump, a little plumbing and a little electrical wiring and presto!!! we have an issue. cannot put breaker on when switch is in off position however if switch is on breaker will set and pump starts?? pump runs fine until switch is flicked off then breaker trips. I say pardon!! wouldn't ya think it would be opposite? So i try changing switch and same problem. I used to occasionally have a problem with breaker tripping when turning old pump on but a reset and usually good to go?? Could it be a problem with pump or breaker? 50+yr old house and panel.
    Marc
    14 x 28 IG, Hayward sand filter, Hayward 3/4hp pump, auto puck chlorinater,(used only when away) Hayward Natural gas heater, vinyl liner

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Double check your wiring, especially ground and neutral. Is this a single phase or 2 phase electric pump? I'd also recommend replacing the old breaker with a new one.its cheap insurance at a couple bucks from lowes or HD... Do you have a GFCI plug installed in the circuit now? Sometimes that will cause issues with the older breakers.

    Sometimes especially when the breakers start to wear out they need to arc to stay on, which may be your case since it only stays on under load. This can be unsafe as well, since it may not trip when it needs to!

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    I had a nephew who is apprentice electrician drop by and he was baffled by it, i have to assume grnd and neutral are correct, no GFCI, I suspect the breaker but what do I know! I'm also thinking that not so easy to get new breaker to fit panel box or why don't electricians go there first? Not knowing much about phases would say 120V single ???
    14 x 28 IG, Hayward sand filter, Hayward 3/4hp pump, auto puck chlorinater,(used only when away) Hayward Natural gas heater, vinyl liner

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Is the pump dual voltage? If so is it wired correctly for 120?
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Yes came wired for 240 but is a simple move a plug deal for 120
    14 x 28 IG, Hayward sand filter, Hayward 3/4hp pump, auto puck chlorinater,(used only when away) Hayward Natural gas heater, vinyl liner

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    I'm not sure what anyone can do from the net. You'll have to take some pictures or describe exactly were you connected each wire. What happens when the pump motor is unplugged & the switch is turned off?
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    I would need to know the wiring methods used. THWN in pipe, UF direct burial, extension cords, etc. I am willing to bet it is a bad section of wire.



    BTW, there is no such thing as 2 phase anymore. It is either single phase (99.99999% of residential) or 3 phase. Residential 240 is split leg single phase.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Is the switch a standard toggle switch?
    It doesn't happen to be a 3-way switch does it?
    I'd replace the switch before replacing the breaker.

    It would be good if you could post a pic of the back of the switch and the breaker wiring. Also the pump wiring would be nice too.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    I have a metal conduit post at the pump with switch box on top of it, was there when bought house 20+yrs ago. All that comes from house in conduit is 2 conductor wire. Switch was old single toggle on/off. I understand switch should be hp rated? however old one wasn't and I did put a new flat residential switch in to see if switch was problem, no change. I also installed a timer on post under switch box, but did bypass it as part of my problem search, still no change?? Tonight if I don't find problem I will post pics, have to be off to work shortly :>{{
    14 x 28 IG, Hayward sand filter, Hayward 3/4hp pump, auto puck chlorinater,(used only when away) Hayward Natural gas heater, vinyl liner

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Try disconnecting the wires coming from the house & capping them off with wire nuts or electrical tape. Turn the circuit breaker on & see if it trips.
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Sooo! I own a floor covering business and my landlord/neighbor happens to be an electric motor rewind shop >)), so I goes over an talks to one of his guys and figure out that I have switch wired wrong!!!! I have white and black wires on switch instead of bypassing switch with neutral straight to timer! Daah, When switch is in off pos. dead short, when in on pos. all good. So the moral of the story is I should stick to flooring and leave the electrical to someone else, hehehe
    14 x 28 IG, Hayward sand filter, Hayward 3/4hp pump, auto puck chlorinater,(used only when away) Hayward Natural gas heater, vinyl liner

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Glad you figured it out.
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    I would love to see a schematic of how you managed that. Still does not make sense that it would hold in the on position and not the off position
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    I'm guessing you were also using the wrong kind of switch, like a 3-way switch (the kind of switch that is commonly used at the bottom and top of a stairways that control a single light from either switch). If wired correctly you can make it work, but it's certainly not the preferred switch type to use.
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Quote Originally Posted by danpik View Post
    I would love to see a schematic of how you managed that. Still does not make sense that it would hold in the on position and not the off position
    I'll try to explain wiring, and no it's not a 3 way switch, blk on one terminal and wh on other terminal of switch from house,blk and white from same to timer, blk and wh from pump to timer. grnd from house and grnd from pump to grd screw in timer box. Hope this makes sense? I think what happens, trying to visualize water flow, no pun intended,is the switch is really on when I thought it was off
    14 x 28 IG, Hayward sand filter, Hayward 3/4hp pump, auto puck chlorinater,(used only when away) Hayward Natural gas heater, vinyl liner

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Ah - now that makes more sense. Is it working now or still needs to be fixed after work?
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Quote Originally Posted by shockman View Post
    I'll try to explain wiring, and no it's not a 3 way switch, blk on one terminal and wh on other terminal of switch from house,blk and white from same to timer, blk and wh from pump to timer. grnd from house and grnd from pump to grd screw in timer box. Hope this makes sense? I think what happens, trying to visualize water flow, no pun intended,is the switch is really on when I thought it was off
    I was thinking that was what you did when you indicated that you discovered the problem. Then I thought, nah, he couldn't have done that.

    Both Blacks to the switch and the whites together
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Nephew went over and changed routeing and texted "all good"
    14 x 28 IG, Hayward sand filter, Hayward 3/4hp pump, auto puck chlorinater,(used only when away) Hayward Natural gas heater, vinyl liner

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: electrical wizards!!???

    Quote Originally Posted by danpik View Post
    I would love to see a schematic of how you managed that. Still does not make sense that it would hold in the on position and not the off position
    I agree, still doesn't make sense.

    It would only make sense if he mounted the switch up-side-down.

    No matter how it's wired after the switch it will still dead short if the switch has incoming house power applied neutral to one terminal and hot to the other.

    So, with the switch up (which was really off) the power was hard wired with no short.
    When the switch was down (which was really on) the switch provided a shorted path directly from line to neutral.

    Woops, just read OPs post "the switch is really on when I thought it was off".
    24k gallon inground vinyl liner pool, 8'-3' depth, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, basic 5 chem kit.
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