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Thread: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

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    pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    Alright,

    I had a bottle of pH minus from last season that I've been using to bring my pH down, and planned to switch to muriatic acid when it's finished.
    When I was in Canadian Tire this past weekend, I decided to get myself some Muriatic acid. I get to the paint section and I see this plastic bottle of muriatic acid that is wrapped in a plastic bag that is sealed, with all kind of warnings about wearing goggles and long gloves, and always keeping the bottle upright and making sure the cap is well sealed.

    I'm like whoa whoa whoa whoa... this doesn't seem inviting at all. My pH minus bottle has an orange cap and looks cute.

    1- Jokes aside, what's the downside of using pH minus vs muriatic acid? I know TFP recommends muriatic acid.

    2- And if i do get muriatic acid, any pointers about using it safely and how to store it?

    The fact that the bottle itself was sealed in a plastic bag made me think that I wouldn't want to keep any left over muriatic acid in the garage all winter, have the fumes evaporate and do god knows what.

    Thanks in advance
    Round Above ground Cedar pool 18ft (approximately 30,000L = 8000 gallons), Hayward 2 speed 1.5HP pump, Hayward XStream Cartridge filter, Hayward Titanium HP50B 55,000 BTU heat pump, Hayward offline chlorinator, Big dipper ozonator.

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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    You do definitely have to be careful with Muriatic Acid. Wearing safety goggles is very prudent because acid splashed into the eye can cause blindness. Acid on skin isn't so bad unless you've got an open cut or damaged skin, though even with intact skin you should rinse off soon or else it will itch and eventually burn.

    You are right that you don't want to store the acid near any metal since it has a pressure-relief cap and will vent gas if it warms up.

    Full-strength Muriatic Acid fumes a lot; half-strength fumes a lot less.

    Whatever you do, do NOT pour the acid into a bucket, not even to dilute it first (unless the bucket is very large filled with water and the amount of acid relatively small). That can create far more fumes transferring from one container to another.

    This thread is an older one that gives you some info on what people do to avoid problems. This thread is recent and indicates that not only do you not want to pour the acid into another container (especially a larger bucket) but if you are going to use a respirator you need to have one that is a full face mask including the eyes. Otherwise you won't smell the fumes so won't know to get your eyes away from them. I'm not trying to scare you because a lot of people use the acid without incident, but wanted you to see what people do to avoid worst-case issues. For me, I pour into a pint-sized cup away from me over the pool, but I think the measuring on the bottle and pouring into the pool directly would work even better.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    Thanks a lot Chem geek for all the info and the threads you recommended. Really good info.

    I might just stick with dry acid for now, it just makes my heart beat at a nice slow regular rate.

    I've been researching a bit about dry acid, so the downside to it is that it adds sulfates to the water. What's the downside of sulfates? Is this an issue for my vinyl pool/setup? And does the fact that I drain half the pool every winter allow me to just get away with using dry acid?

    Thanks
    Round Above ground Cedar pool 18ft (approximately 30,000L = 8000 gallons), Hayward 2 speed 1.5HP pump, Hayward XStream Cartridge filter, Hayward Titanium HP50B 55,000 BTU heat pump, Hayward offline chlorinator, Big dipper ozonator.

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    Wildcat's Avatar
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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    If you take normal precautions muriatic acid is safe. Glass or goggles, pour slowly and close to the surface. Cheaper than dry acid and no sulphur
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    See Sulfates why so bad? and Sulfates - what's the problem? They are more of an issue for plaster pools and should not affect vinyl. They can affect concrete if there is a lot of splash-out with evaporation and they can affect SWG cells. It sounds like these are not your situation.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Steve-in-VA's Avatar
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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    Seems like I need to be more cautious using MA.... I just keep my head away and hold the bottle right above the surface. Once I finishing pouring I put the cap on and dunk it a couple times in the pool to get any excess off. No goggles ... Might need to start

    21,200 gallon/ 30' vinyl round above ground pool/ 200# hayward sand filter/1.5 hp hayward pump (70gl/m) /
    /self installed pool about 3 years ago - Smithfield, VA- Pool filled with well water -TF100 kit

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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    That wrapping and sealing of the acid jugs in a bag is such complete overkill. I don't know of its the store policy or government, but the consumer will have to pay for that.
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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    DO NOT get it anywhere near chlorine.
    36' x 18' 20k in ground, Finest Finish grey plaster, Pentair Tagelus 100D sand filter, Hayward Northstar 2hp pump, Jandy LRZ125EN heater, spill over spa, iaqualink controlled automation, Stenner chlorination, natural rock and flagstone coping, 1" glass mosaic waterline tile, SR Smith Vortex slide.

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    Steve-in-VA's Avatar
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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    Might be a Canadian thing Patrick


    21,200 gallon/ 30' vinyl round above ground pool/ 200# hayward sand filter/1.5 hp hayward pump (70gl/m) /
    /self installed pool about 3 years ago - Smithfield, VA- Pool filled with well water -TF100 kit

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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-in-VA View Post
    Might be a Canadian thing Patrick


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I guess I must be a Canuck at heart then because I wrap my extra bottles of MA up in small plastic office trash bags and tie off the tops I buy four refillable gallon bottles at a time and I store them in my garage next to a metal shelf. Trying to keep the corrosion down....
    Matt
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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    I guess I must be a Canuck at heart then because I wrap my extra bottles of MA up in small plastic office trash bags and tie off the tops I buy four refillable gallon bottles at a time and I store them in my garage next to a metal shelf. Trying to keep the corrosion down....
    You should put some base in the bag for the hydrochloric acid gases to react with, perhaps baking soda would be reasonable and safe (probably needs to be moist or in water). Otherwise it could just build up pressure and outgas from the bags at some point. You should look up what is typically done to neutralize HCl gas safely.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek View Post
    You should put some base in the bag for the hydrochloric acid gases to react with, perhaps baking soda would be reasonable and safe (probably needs to be moist or in water). Otherwise it could just build up pressure and outgas from the bags at some point. You should look up what is typically done to neutralize HCl gas safely.
    Wish I had one of these -



    But I think I'll try the wet baking soda trick first before purchasing the expensive vented cabinet


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    interesting thing i found out the other day....i was getting my MA from Leslies and it was the 38 baum variety. then i was in need and happened to be near a home depot and they carried it as well, juts half strength. the value was with the stronger acid price wise, but i feel safer with the Home Depot stuff. is it still dangerous? heck yeah, but it doesnt stink as much, if at all. and just feels safer to use...especially if i need my wife to dose the pool.
    12000g pool + 1000g spa. Jandy 2.0hp epump + separate Jandy pump for Sheer Descent. Jandy CV Cartridge Filter. Jandy Lxi gas heater. Tropical Breeze PebbleTec. Aqualink. Aquapure SWG. Nature 2. The Pool Cleaner 2x. Taylor K-2005.

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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    Quote Originally Posted by umpalumpajay View Post
    interesting thing i found out the other day....i was getting my MA from Leslies and it was the 38 baum variety. then i was in need and happened to be near a home depot and they carried it as well, juts half strength. the value was with the stronger acid price wise, but i feel safer with the Home Depot stuff. is it still dangerous? heck yeah, but it doesnt stink as much, if at all. and just feels safer to use...especially if i need my wife to dose the pool.
    The stuff at the pool store was 31.45% and the MA at HD was 15%. But I bet they were sold at nearly the same price.
    You are paying double for a weaker product.

    So yes, the 15% fumes a lot less but is still dangerous if it splashed in your eyes. You can use it in the pool but you will need to use twice as much.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: pH minus vs muriatic acid!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-in-VA View Post
    Might be a Canadian thing Patrick


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I don't know if it's a Canadian thing or just the specific brand in that store.
    You've peaked my interest, next time I'm at a different hardware store or a pool store, I'm gonna check their muriatic acid and see if their bottles are sealed in a plastic bag as well.
    Round Above ground Cedar pool 18ft (approximately 30,000L = 8000 gallons), Hayward 2 speed 1.5HP pump, Hayward XStream Cartridge filter, Hayward Titanium HP50B 55,000 BTU heat pump, Hayward offline chlorinator, Big dipper ozonator.

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