Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: New pool chemistry question

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Tuttle/Oklahoma
    Posts
    147

    New pool chemistry question

    We just started filling our pool last Thursday night and it was full buy 10 PM Friday night. The pump did not start running until Saturday and the PB had us shock the pool Sat night and I tested the water late Sunday morning. We are going to be a SWG but PB said that we need to run on Chlorine for 2 weeks before switching over to salt. Sorry but I do nut have the actual numbers here in front of me but going off of memory this is what I had.

    FC: 3
    pH: 7.5
    TA: 240
    CH: 250
    CYA: 0
    Salt: 0
    Borate: 0
    CSI: Didn't test but will tonight

    My question is regarding TA. Mine was like 240 when I tested it this weekend. Obviously I still have a lot to learn about pool chemistry. Our waterline glass tile is looking cloudy so I am guessing that my CSI is high???

    Based on pool math I think my pool is ~29,000 gallons. Sort of tough since it is freeform.
    My Pool Build Thread: 21 x 40 Freeform Gunite Pool, 12" Tanning Ledge, 3.5 shallow graduating to 4.5, 8.5 deep end, 4' Waterfall which doubles as a diving ledge with 6' x 4' Grotto underneath, 670 sq. ft., 106 Linear ft., Rock Salted Concrete Deck, Pentair 520 Filter, Intelli flow 3 HP VS pump, (4) Color LED lights, Intelli-Chlor SWG, Hot Springs Vanguard Hot Tub with ACE and BT Sound System, ODK, TF100

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Richard320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Dimas, CA (LA County)
    Posts
    18,768

    Re: New pool chemistry question

    poolmath indicates the CSI is getting close to the danger zone when the water gets into the upper 80s. Adding acid to reduce pH will lower TA as well.

    You need some CYA in the water or your pool won't hold FC for long and you're practically begging for an algae bloom.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Tuttle/Oklahoma
    Posts
    147

    Re: New pool chemistry question

    Thanks Richard. When the PB had us shock the pool, he also added 3 chlorine tabs to both of the skimmers. Did I read somewhere that these also have CYA in them? It also rained very hard last night and is supposed to rain some more today so I am interested to see what that does to my numbers, probably not much without lowering the pH first? I will get some CYA on my way home and test my water for new readings (including CSI) before doing the CYA tube sock trick. Is all CYA created equally? There is a Leslie's on my way and I was looking at Leslie's 12305 Chlorine Stabilizer Water Conditioner Bucket, 8 lbs. Sound like the appropriate plan of attack?
    My Pool Build Thread: 21 x 40 Freeform Gunite Pool, 12" Tanning Ledge, 3.5 shallow graduating to 4.5, 8.5 deep end, 4' Waterfall which doubles as a diving ledge with 6' x 4' Grotto underneath, 670 sq. ft., 106 Linear ft., Rock Salted Concrete Deck, Pentair 520 Filter, Intelli flow 3 HP VS pump, (4) Color LED lights, Intelli-Chlor SWG, Hot Springs Vanguard Hot Tub with ACE and BT Sound System, ODK, TF100

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: New pool chemistry question

    Congrats on the new pool!

    There is no test for CSI. Input all your numbers in Pool School - PoolMath and it will give you a CSI toward the bottom. Then you can change the target numbers to see what the numbers do to change CSI.

    With new plaster it is very important to keep PH below 7.8. It is always important to keep PH between 7.2 and 7.8.

    It is also very important to keep chlorine at target level for your CYA at all times to keep the pool sanitary and algae free. Chlorine CYA Chart. You need at least 30ppm in there now, 50 is better in your sunny location. And then 70-80 with saltwater.

    With TA that high your PH will want to rise. And having new plaster it will also want to rise. You probably need to test PH morning and evening for a while. When PH gets to 7.8 add muriatic acid to lower it to 7.2. Doing this repeatedly will lower your TA. Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

    Here are some Pool school articles to read in between PH tests.
    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs
    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Tuttle/Oklahoma
    Posts
    147

    Need Immediate advice... PLEASE HELP

    Brand new pool. Only thing that I/PB have put in today is Chlorine. Sat the PB put 3 Cholrine pucks in each of my 2 skimmers. He had me pour a bag of poolife turboshock in each skimmer that night. Have been running the pump 24/7. Sun morning my numbers were:

    TC: 3
    pH: 7.5
    TA: 240
    CH: 250 (i think)
    CYA: 0

    Just now tested and this is what I got:

    TC: 0
    pH: 8.2
    TA: 220
    CH: 225
    CYA: 0
    CSI: 1.12 OVER DOUBLE LEGAL LIMIT!!!!

    I have more bags of shock that I can use. I also just bought 1 Gallon of Muratic Acid and 4 lbs of Chlorox Chlorine Stabilizer.

    Should I do the 2 bags of Shock again, with the Muratic, and start with 1 LB of stabilizer in a sock tonight? Freaking out that I am about to ruin my pool....
    My Pool Build Thread: 21 x 40 Freeform Gunite Pool, 12" Tanning Ledge, 3.5 shallow graduating to 4.5, 8.5 deep end, 4' Waterfall which doubles as a diving ledge with 6' x 4' Grotto underneath, 670 sq. ft., 106 Linear ft., Rock Salted Concrete Deck, Pentair 520 Filter, Intelli flow 3 HP VS pump, (4) Color LED lights, Intelli-Chlor SWG, Hot Springs Vanguard Hot Tub with ACE and BT Sound System, ODK, TF100

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: Need Immediate advice... PLEASE HELP

    Isn't this a double post, I thought I responded to a post just like this earlier today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Found it. Here is what I said.

    Congrats on the new pool!

    There is no test for CSI. Input all your numbers in Pool School - PoolMath and it will give you a CSI toward the bottom. Then you can change the target numbers to see what the numbers do to change CSI.

    With new plaster it is very important to keep PH below 7.8. It is always important to keep PH between 7.2 and 7.8.

    It is also very important to keep chlorine at target level for your CYA at all times to keep the pool sanitary and algae free. Chlorine CYA Chart. You need at least 30ppm in there now, 50 is better in your sunny location. And then 70-80 with saltwater.

    With TA that high your PH will want to rise. And having new plaster it will also want to rise. You probably need to test PH morning and evening for a while. When PH gets to 7.8 add muriatic acid to lower it to 7.2. Doing this repeatedly will lower your TA. Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

    Here are some Pool school articles to read in between PH tests.
    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs
    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Divin Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Longview, Texas
    Posts
    4,926

    Re: Need Immediate advice... PLEASE HELP

    Hi Sooner,
    you do need to get your pH down. Hi pH is not good, especially for new plaster.

    Next, you do not mention that you added any stabilizer to the pool. Without it, any chlorine you put in wont last more than about 20 to 30 minutes. It will be burned off by UV from the sun.

    Use pool math to add enough CYA to get to a level of 30, and consider it to be 30.
    with CYA of 30, your FC levels should be minimum of 2 and a target of 4

    Recommend you read this article from pool school.
    Pool School - Start-up New Plaster
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Tuttle/Oklahoma
    Posts
    147

    Re: Need Immediate advice... PLEASE HELP

    Sorry, did'nt mean to double post. I was/am panicked because of the quick change in my pool chemistry and the fact that my CSI is way out of whack. Didnt know if the new numbers would change the plan of action and wanted to find out if there was anything that I needed to do immediately. So this is what I did. I put in 1 gallon of muriatic acid and then 1 bag of the shock in each skimmer. Pool math says I need more but I figured it was best to build up to it. I figure I will retest in the am and add the stabilizer, and more muriatic acid if needed. Sorry, I am reading but it's all so new to me. Unfortunately I am also one of those guys that learns much better through experience.
    My Pool Build Thread: 21 x 40 Freeform Gunite Pool, 12" Tanning Ledge, 3.5 shallow graduating to 4.5, 8.5 deep end, 4' Waterfall which doubles as a diving ledge with 6' x 4' Grotto underneath, 670 sq. ft., 106 Linear ft., Rock Salted Concrete Deck, Pentair 520 Filter, Intelli flow 3 HP VS pump, (4) Color LED lights, Intelli-Chlor SWG, Hot Springs Vanguard Hot Tub with ACE and BT Sound System, ODK, TF100

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: New pool chemistry question

    Well, you are getting that right now! LOL!

    It is like learning a new language at first, but it really is pretty simple once your get your head wrapped around it. I had to read it 30 or 40 times at first, printed it out, put it in a folder, the whole deal. Now it is as simple as cooking bacon and eggs, no recipe needed.

    Mmmm bacon!

    You are right about not adding a whole bunch of anything at one time. A day or two out of whack will not ruin your pool. It is sustained issues that cause long term problems. Except chlorine. That needs to be at target all the time to keep algae away.

    When adjusting PH let the pump run for 30 minutes and retest and add more as needed.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Tuttle/Oklahoma
    Posts
    147

    Re: New pool chemistry question

    I didn't sleep very well last night as I kept waking up thinking about my pool chemistry so I finally gave up the fight and rolled out of bed at 3:30 to test my water and these were my readings:

    FC: 8 (It's high but better than the 0 it registered at 6:00 pm yesterday. Not sure what it should have gone up to considering the 2 bags I put in last night) What is the purpose of measuring CC since pool math only uses FC?
    pH: 7.3
    TA: 190
    CH: 250
    CYA: Didn't test because I have not added any before now.
    CSI: .18

    I just finished hanging (2) tube socks with ~ 2 lbs each (which according to google is 32 oz) of stabilizer. I hung 1 directli in front of a return in my shallow end and the other directly in front of a return in my deep end. That is roughly half of what pool math tells me that I need but all that I have on me at the time. My pH dropped overnight from 8.2 to 7.3 just by adding 1 gallon of muriatic acid (added at roughly 9:00 pm). Should I add another gallon of muriatic acid before heading off to work this morning or wait until I get home and test again? Should I add the rest of the stabilizer when I get home from work or wait and see what sort of readings I get with this? I am guessing that a lot of my Chlorine will burn off today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    Hi Sooner,
    you do need to get your pH down. Hi pH is not good, especially for new plaster.

    Next, you do not mention that you added any stabilizer to the pool. Without it, any chlorine you put in wont last more than about 20 to 30 minutes. It will be burned off by UV from the sun.

    Use pool math to add enough CYA to get to a level of 30, and consider it to be 30.
    with CYA of 30, your FC levels should be minimum of 2 and a target of 4

    Recommend you read this article from pool school.
    Pool School - Start-up New Plaster
    Thanks for the advice. I have read it multiple times and I guess I was counting on my PB to do my start up but I am done with that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Well, you are getting that right now! LOL!

    It is like learning a new language at first, but it really is pretty simple once your get your head wrapped around it. I had to read it 30 or 40 times at first, printed it out, put it in a folder, the whole deal. Now it is as simple as cooking bacon and eggs, no recipe needed.

    Mmmm bacon!

    You are right about not adding a whole bunch of anything at one time. A day or two out of whack will not ruin your pool. It is sustained issues that cause long term problems. Except chlorine. That needs to be at target all the time to keep algae away.

    When adjusting PH let the pump run for 30 minutes and retest and add more as needed.
    Thanks pooldv. You are right, it is like learning a new language. After reading some of the posts in this section I just say...huh?
    My Pool Build Thread: 21 x 40 Freeform Gunite Pool, 12" Tanning Ledge, 3.5 shallow graduating to 4.5, 8.5 deep end, 4' Waterfall which doubles as a diving ledge with 6' x 4' Grotto underneath, 670 sq. ft., 106 Linear ft., Rock Salted Concrete Deck, Pentair 520 Filter, Intelli flow 3 HP VS pump, (4) Color LED lights, Intelli-Chlor SWG, Hot Springs Vanguard Hot Tub with ACE and BT Sound System, ODK, TF100

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Divin Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Longview, Texas
    Posts
    4,926

    Re: New pool chemistry question

    Sooner, CC's are Combined Chlorine.

    Think of it as chlorine that has destroyed itself fighting algae, and other organics in the water. If CC is above .5ppm, then that is an indicator that there may be algae or other organics in the pool that the Free Chlorine is trying to oxidize. Lots of things can cause CC's such as algae, a skimmer basket full of leaves that hasnt been emptied in a day or 2, animals that have inadvertently fallen in and drowned, lots of swimmers....etc.

    If you test the CC in the water and the result higher than .5, then its a warning that something is eating up your FC and you need to look into it further to try and determine why the CC is high. It should normally not be higher than .5, (1 drop for the test to go clear).

    There is not pool math mention of it because you do not add stuff to adjust for it.
    You keep the CC's under control, by keeping your pools chemical balance in check.

    Suggest you familiarize yourself with the ABC's of Pool Chemistry
    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Tuttle/Oklahoma
    Posts
    147

    Re: New pool chemistry question

    Here is my reading History.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    The PB randomly shows up and puts chlorine tabs in the skimmers so that has not been tracked.

    1) Should I worry about upping my CH or wait until I get my TA down before trying to tackle that? I am guessing that once I get home my TA will have risen enough to add some more Muriatic acid.

    2) Anyone else use a spreadsheet to track their readings? I thought it might be helpful to have the historical information until I get comfortable with balancing the water.

    3) Does anything else throw up a red flag to you chemists?
    My Pool Build Thread: 21 x 40 Freeform Gunite Pool, 12" Tanning Ledge, 3.5 shallow graduating to 4.5, 8.5 deep end, 4' Waterfall which doubles as a diving ledge with 6' x 4' Grotto underneath, 670 sq. ft., 106 Linear ft., Rock Salted Concrete Deck, Pentair 520 Filter, Intelli flow 3 HP VS pump, (4) Color LED lights, Intelli-Chlor SWG, Hot Springs Vanguard Hot Tub with ACE and BT Sound System, ODK, TF100

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: New pool chemistry question

    I use a google sheet so I can get to it from any device.

    What is the CH of your fill water?

    Two things are very important. They are important all the time but VERY important with a new pool.
    1 maintain PH between 7.2 and 7.8
    2 maintain FC at or slightly above target for your CYA at all times. Chlorine CYA Chart You don't want to get algae or have to slam a new pool. It is much better to keep 8 or 9 ppm of FC than to be close to minimum. It is safe to swim with FC up to shock level.

    A new plaster pool will cause PH to rise and high TA will also cause PH to rise. Test PH daily and lower it to 7.2 when it gets to 7.8. Doing this repeatedly will slowly lower your TA. Don't let the pool spend any time with PH above 7.8. Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

    Keep csi between -0.5 and 0.5. The easiest way to do that is to tweak the PH number as needed.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Tuttle/Oklahoma
    Posts
    147

    Re: New pool chemistry question

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    I use a google sheet so I can get to it from any device.

    What is the CH of your fill water?

    Two things are very important. They are important all the time but VERY important with a new pool.
    1 maintain PH between 7.2 and 7.8
    2 maintain FC at or slightly above target for your CYA at all times. Chlorine CYA Chart You don't want to get algae or have to slam a new pool. It is much better to keep 8 or 9 ppm of FC than to be close to minimum. It is safe to swim with FC up to shock level.

    A new plaster pool will cause PH to rise and high TA will also cause PH to rise. Test PH daily and lower it to 7.2 when it gets to 7.8. Doing this repeatedly will slowly lower your TA. Don't let the pool spend any time with PH above 7.8. Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

    Keep csi between -0.5 and 0.5. The easiest way to do that is to tweak the PH number as needed.
    CH of fill water is 225

    Raising my CYA to 40 today. This evening I will test my FC again and work on raising to 5. Supposed to switch over to SWG at the end of the week so I guess I really should target 70 CYA.
    My Pool Build Thread: 21 x 40 Freeform Gunite Pool, 12" Tanning Ledge, 3.5 shallow graduating to 4.5, 8.5 deep end, 4' Waterfall which doubles as a diving ledge with 6' x 4' Grotto underneath, 670 sq. ft., 106 Linear ft., Rock Salted Concrete Deck, Pentair 520 Filter, Intelli flow 3 HP VS pump, (4) Color LED lights, Intelli-Chlor SWG, Hot Springs Vanguard Hot Tub with ACE and BT Sound System, ODK, TF100

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: New pool chemistry question

    Yes, 70 will be the goal. Nothing wrong with going to 50 now and then 70. Your CH will move up soon enough with evaporation, I wouldn't add any.

    Have you seen this page for SWG pools?
    Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •