Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Another Cloudy Pool

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Another Cloudy Pool

    Been following TFP/poolforum.com for the last year with generally good results. Opened the pool late this year (2 weeks ago). Had some leaves on the bottom, a green-ish hue but clear water. We vacuumed the bottom, added several gallons of chlorine and some small tablets to the skimmer, fired up the pump/filter, and haven't been able to get it to clear.

    33' round above ground with liner. ~25k gallons.

    Have a Taylor K-2006 kit:
    FC: 5
    CC: 0
    Ph: 7.0
    TA: 130
    CH: 30
    CYA: ~20-30


    A couple oddities:

    The return nozzle came off over the winter and fell into the pool. Can't see the bottom right now to fish it out, so I just installed a new one today. Aimed it up to aerate, hoping this helps bring the Ph up since the TA seems to be plenty high.

    I just added 4 lbs. of CYA. It measured less than 20 when we opened. I added it to the water instead of the skimmer because we have been back-washing regularly. That's why I'm estimating 20-30 ppm right now, I'll test it again in a few days.

    I had trouble last year and this year both with green stuff occasionally coming out of the return jet when vacuuming so I was suspicious of the sand filter. I dumped the old sand, took the legs apart and cleaned it out really well, didn't find any cracks. Replaced it with the required 200 lbs. of pool sand from the local pool store. New sand seems finer than what was in it before which seemed like a step in the right direction, but I've still seen the green stuff shoot in during vacuuming. Back-wash then and it seems to be OK again.

    CH is very low, does that matter at all with a vinyl pool?

    Should I try a SLAM?? CC is 0 which surprised me. Spiked the chlorine to 10 this past weekend but it has drifted back down to 5 today. Still cloudy blue water.

    Thanks,
    Josh

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Patrick_B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Midland TX
    Posts
    15,001

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    Welcome to the forum!

    I would suggest a SLAM. It should go rather quickly I imagine. Just don't fail to complete it as per the procedure. With 130 TA, the pH should come up on its own with just a little time. Don't worry about the CH in your vinyl pool.
    TFP Moderator
    Essential Links:
    ABC's Of Pool Chemistry, Test Kits, SLAM Your Pool
    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    Thanks for the feedback Patrick.

    Started the SLAM last night @ 9pm. FC was at 9, added most of a 12.5% gallon and got it up to 12.5. CC still 0. Ph still very low per the test, not sure if the high FC influences that?

    Checked the water this morning at 8 am, FC was at 10 ppm. Added a gallon of 12.5% which should bring it up to ~14 ppm. Water looked roughly the same, maybe a smidge more clear. I backwashed the filter. The sight-glass was a bit milky but not terrible, filter pressure was only ~0.5 psi higher than when clean.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool


  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    No need to clean the filter until the pressure rises 20-25% over clean pressure.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    Very frustrated! Pool doesn't seem to be getting more clear whatsoever. Vacuumed the bottom yesterday (though hard to do since you can't see more than ~1 foot below the water). Pool doesn't burn a crazy amount of FC overnight-~1.5, but I didn't bother testing last night and this morning since it's so cloudy!

    I did just have a thought-the previous owner used the pool frog system. I've used some chlorine tablets from time to time but never replaced the mineral pack. The mineral pack is probably 3 years old. In a bit of a freak-out moment I yanked the empty chlorine tablet holder and mineral pack out of the pool frog. Could the pool be full of copper, causing it to cloud worse from the chlorine?? Should I try a sequestrant product?? I'm open for any ideas!

    Tested the CYA and it did increase to about 40, so I'm keeping the FC between 15-20. 0 improvement. Water is clean, blue, but so cloudy I can't see the liner 18" down.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    More information:

    I've always questioned the pump/filter setup on the pool (previous owners installed). I've seen "green stuff" come back into the pool on a few occasions, as I mentioned above. Just replaced the sand and completed cleaned the whole filter tank and laterals.

    The pump is 1 1/2 HP, single speed, "70 GPM". The filter is a sand filter, Hayward SwimPro. Effective filtration area 2.53 ft2, filtration rate 25 GPM/ft2, filter & backwash design flow rate 63 gpm. I believe you would multiply 2.53 * 25=63.25 GPM to find the capacity of the filter. Seems like you would want to stay under that, and my current 1 1/2 HP 70 GPM pump is a bit too large? Is that correct?

    The pool is 33' round, 4' deep, so I come up with 25,600 gallons. At 70 GPM I currently turn the water over in (25,600/70 GPM/60 minute/hr)=6.1 hours. I *think* I could either upsize the filter or downsize the pump.

    Also, the pool only has one skimmer and one return line. Theres a LOT of water coming out of the return jet. Clean filter pressure is 15 psi on the filter gauge. Lines are short but 1 1/2". If TFP agrees my pump is too large for my filter, I'm leaning toward downsizing the pump to 50-60 GPM. Might save me some electricity too!

  8. Back To Top    #8

    TFP Guide

    pabeader's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Dallas Ga
    Posts
    4,064

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    Have you tried DE in the filter?
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Oversize pump not clearing cloudy pool?

    I posted in the TPF method forum (http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...er-Cloudy-Pool), but I haven't got much feedback. Basically, after opening the pool late this year, vacuumed the pool and started a SLAM but haven't been able to clear the cloudiness. I've been questioning the pump/filter ever since we moved in:

    I've seen "green stuff" come back into the pool on a few occasions. Just replaced the sand and completely cleaned the whole filter tank and laterals.

    The pump is 1 1/2 HP, single speed, "70 GPM". The filter is a 21" sand filter, holds 200 lbs. of sand, Hayward SwimPro. Effective filtration area 2.53 ft2, filtration rate 25 GPM/ft2, filter & backwash design flow rate 63 gpm. I believe you would multiply 2.53 * 25=63.25 GPM to find the capacity of the filter. Seems like you would want to stay under that, and my current 1 1/2 HP 70 GPM pump is a bit too large? Is that correct?

    The pool is a very large 33' round, 4' deep, so I come up with 25,600 gallons. At 70 GPM I currently turn the water over in (25,600/70 GPM/60 minute/hr)=6.1 hours. I *think* I could either upsize the filter or downsize the pump to improve filtering?

    Also, the pool only has one skimmer and one return line. There's a LOT of water coming out of the return jet. Clean filter pressure is 15 psi on the filter gauge. Lines are short but 1 1/2". If TFP agrees my pump is too large for my filter, I'm leaning toward downsizing the pump to 50-60 GPM 2-speed. Might save me some electricity too!

    *edit* I picked up a 1 1/2 HP 2-speed pump yesterday for $229, but now I'm debating returning it and looking for a 2-speed 1 HP pump, and possibly a larger sand filter.
    Any thoughts? Could this be the reason my pool won't clear up?? Thanks in advance!

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    I haven't yet, but I did pick some up late last year I could try this weekend. Thanks for the suggestion.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    9,004

    Re: Oversize pump not clearing cloudy pool?

    If I had to replace one of the two, I'd suggest your filter is too small for that pool. I have a 250 lb. sand filter on my 13,500 gal. pool.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
    Pool Rover Jr., Pool Blaster Max, Diver Dave TF100 Test Kit/Speed Stir
    Margaritaville Frozen Concoction Maker, Liqour Chiller, & Drink Mixer & Party Tub----Collect 'um all!

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Oversize pump not clearing cloudy pool?

    While I agree that the filter is a bit too small for that pool, it isn't the reason you can't clear it. You may have to backwash it more than you would a larger filter, but it should clear it just as well. Also, just because your pump says 70gpm doesn't mean it's delivering anywhere near that.

    I see that someone suggested adding DE to the filter in the other thread, so you should try that before giving up.

    Since you have the 2-speed pump, I suggest going ahead and installing it.

    Also, I'm combining these threads together, as it makes it difficult to keep up with the whole picture if it's spread between many threads.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    I'll try the DE in the current setup tonight. I have a 1 HP 2-speed motor coming from Amazon tomorrow and I'll return the 1.5 HP pump tomorrow. After reading up on pump sizing it sounds like the 1 HP will be more than enough. Thanks for the feedback thus far. Feeling a bit discouraged right now, hopefully the DE or smaller pump improve the water. I plan to run the new pump at low speed to see if helps the sand filter works better.

    Should I let the FC drop back down to normal levels? It has been at shock for about 5 days now. 0 CC.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    Part of the criteria for passing the OCLT is that the water is clear. Keep it at slam level until that happens.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    Good job on that pump, you will save lots of money running that pump on low to filter. Just need some patience now. It took a week and a half to SLAM my pool a month ago. And it was perfectly clear and had been for 3 years straight. The SLAM process works great, it just needs time to kill all the algae. Make sure you brush daily or more, especially ladders, lights, cleaners, anything that can hide some algae. If the water is mostly clear and you can see the bottom then it is fine to lower the FC just below shock level and swim. We swam every day during our SLAM.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Please add your pool info to your signature as shown here, Pool School - Getting Started
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    Some updates:

    I added about 1 1/2 cups total of DE to the old filter/pump setup Friday night. By Saturday at noon the pool looked maybe slightly improved, nothing major though.

    Installed the new 1 HP 2-speed pump on Saturday. It's excellent! Flow on high is still strong, but not fire-hydrant strong like it was before. Clean filter pressure went from 15 psi down to 10 psi on high. 1.5 psi on low. I also noticed the Hayward sand filter says 10 psi maximum head pressure...I'm continuing to use DE but with the pump on high as it circulates the water much better. I tried low overnight Sat-Sun and didn't notice any significant improvement in water clarity. Once I get the water cleared (if that ever happens?!) I plan to run the pump on low 24/7.

    The kids wanted to swim as it has been hot here and the water is nice and warm so I let the chlorine drift down slightly to ~11-13 Saturday and Sunday. New pump still running 24/7. Vacuumed the pool manually for a couple hours on Sunday and scrubbed all the walls and steps really well. Sucked up a lot more leaves and pine needles than I had expected. I still can't see the bottom so it makes vacuuming a real challenge...I then let the robot go for a couple hours and it drew up a bunch more leaves so my great vacuum job wasn't as good as I thought. Brought the chlorine level back up to 16 last night, I've almost gone through my 16 gallons of 12.5% so I need to buy more today!

    It's supposed to be near 90 most of the week, can I keep the chlorine between 10-14 so that the kids can swim for a few days? I've been working on clearing up the pool for weeks now and the kid & mom are losing patience with this whole process.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    TFP Guide

    pabeader's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Dallas Ga
    Posts
    4,064

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    I believe we can now say why it's taking so long. Every leaf and stick, as well as algae, uses chlorine. As long as there is still debris in the deep end, that is going to use up the chlorine before it gets a chance to work on the algae.
    Do you have a leaf rake? It looks like a skimmer net but it has a long net/mesh bag attached. These work great for cleaning up stuff, even when you can't 'see' it.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    I was starting to think that could be the case as well. The leaves were thin and very bleached looking. The organic stuff must be using up the bleach.

    I don't have a leaf rake, only a skimmer net. I'll try to find one today/tomorrow. Thank you for the help! I also had a thought, maybe I should shut the pump off for a day or so to let everything settle and hopefully clear the water some so I can fish out the leaves/debris, then start the SLAM process again. I don't know if I've got most of it out now or not.

  19. Back To Top    #19

    TFP Guide

    pabeader's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Dallas Ga
    Posts
    4,064

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    I'm inclined to say, no. Leave it on so it can circulate the chlorine. There might be some value in turning it off for a little while though to see what settles out. But i wouldn't go more a 4 hours with it off.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Central Michigan
    Posts
    11

    Re: Another Cloudy Pool

    IMG_0221.jpg
    I can just see the bottom, finally! This picture was from yesterday. Haven't seen the bottom since we opened the pool. Filter still running 24/7 on high, but the new 1HP pump with some DE certainly seems to help the sand filter do its job.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •