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Thread: Jet / Return Eyeball, which way to set all of them?

  1. #1

    Jet / Return Eyeball, which way to set all of them?

    I have been trying to figure out how to most efficiently turn my eyeball returns. I can't find anything on here that this has been talked about before. I have a fairly odd-shaped pool and the water all goes in one direction, it is generally clean but I was wondering if there is science related to how to point the return jets.

    Some of mine are pointed down, some are pointed up. Should I mess with them or not?
    12,000 Gallon
    Hayward 2HP Pump
    Solar Panel
    TF-100 Kit
    Built 2004, bought Dec 2007
    BBB All the Way

  2. #2
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    Re: Jet / Return Eyeball, which way to set all of them?

    Well, I don't think there's too much science involved but there's some general thoughts:

    1. Point your eyeballs in a manner that will give a circular flow around the pool. This brings surface debris in front of the skimmers.

    2. If you have a deep end and are getting poor circulation into the bottom, point an eyball down into that area to more evenly mix your pool water.

    3. If you notice debris accumulating in one spot on the pool floor, you can frequently point an eyeball at it and remove that "dead" spot.

    Probably #1 is the most important and I do notice it helps my skimmers when I have the water "circling" the pool
    Dave S.
    Site Owner 42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter, No SWG
    TFTestkits owner
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. #3
    Senior Member Davegvg's Avatar
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    Re: Jet / Return Eyeball, which way to set all of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitz369
    I have been trying to figure out how to most efficiently turn my eyeball returns. I can't find anything on here that this has been talked about before. I have a fairly odd-shaped pool and the water all goes in one direction, it is generally clean but I was wondering if there is science related to how to point the return jets.

    Some of mine are pointed down, some are pointed up. Should I mess with them or not?

    Without solar I pretty much agree with duraleigh-although I would say go circular the "long way" towards the skimmer to help clear the edges of leafs and small debris that wants to stick to the wall. suction side cleaners often "want" them pointed down so the flow doesn't push the cleaner into a non random pattern, but with enough suction they don't seem to care.

    If you are using solar panels you should take them out completely. They add pressure to the panels which greatly reduces their lifespan.

    The less pressure in the system the better the panels will work and the greater their overall lifespan. You'll probably see a 1-2 pound drop just taking them out. Current pool design philosophy focuses on lowering pressure everywhere possible, and removal of the eyes is a last step.

    I depend on a combination of "tricks and tools" to keep my pool clean mainly a combo remote skimmer- and cleaner with a non pressure adding skimming device like the LCS in this video, alternatively a poolskim, or a pool devil add cleaning/skimming and some circulation with very little pressure added.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdwxCZDvzI

    Uncle Dave
    20K Gallon Gunnite pool/900 Gallon in ground Spa/2HP Whisperflow Spa boost pump
    Pentair Master temp 400/Pentair Quad DE 60/Jandy RS-8 Aqualink/Jandy 2HP Epump (formerly 1HP whisperflow)
    12 - 4x10 Solar Panels/ Goldline Chlorinator/Barracuda G4
    Polaris LCS Leaf Canister skimmer/Pool Devil Pro/Poolskim

  4. #4

    Re: Jet / Return Eyeball, which way to set all of them?

    Okay this brings up an interesting topic. So I do have solar and I am currently running them and hopefully will b e able to swim by the end of March, since the water is already 66 degrees.

    So I am currently running a Hayward Navigator and Solar Panels. I have a dedicated line for the cleaner so I have the cleaner valve open 75% of the way, the valve on the main drain vs. skimmer is right in the middle.

    Normally without solar running my pressure is about 20 PSI, when I run the panels it goes up by 10 so it runs at 30.


    What are you suggesting I do to keep the pressure down when I run the solar panels?
    12,000 Gallon
    Hayward 2HP Pump
    Solar Panel
    TF-100 Kit
    Built 2004, bought Dec 2007
    BBB All the Way

  5. #5
    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Jet / Return Eyeball, which way to set all of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by nitz369
    Normally without solar running my pressure is about 20 PSI, when I run the panels it goes up by 10 so it runs at 30.


    What are you suggesting I do to keep the pressure down when I run the solar panels?
    Normally panels are installed with either a 3-way valve or bypass arrangement that lets you control how much water goes to the panels. Most people turn the valve until they see about a 4psi rise.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

  6. #6

    Re: Jet / Return Eyeball, which way to set all of them?

    Mine have an automatic Jandy valve, so the temp is set and if the pool temp is less than 2 degrees difference from the panels it turns on, currently I have the panels set to on all the time. So the auto valve opens fully. If I only open it half way it makes LOTS of noise, running water noise, the whole thing is really loud if I do that.

    Should I only be opening partially?
    12,000 Gallon
    Hayward 2HP Pump
    Solar Panel
    TF-100 Kit
    Built 2004, bought Dec 2007
    BBB All the Way

  7. #7
    Senior Member Davegvg's Avatar
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    Re: Jet / Return Eyeball, which way to set all of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    Quote Originally Posted by nitz369
    Normally without solar running my pressure is about 20 PSI, when I run the panels it goes up by 10 so it runs at 30.


    What are you suggesting I do to keep the pressure down when I run the solar panels?
    Normally panels are installed with either a 3-way valve or bypass arrangement that lets you control how much water goes to the panels. Most people turn the valve until they see about a 4psi rise.

    Thats one way to do it, but that does add a bit of parasitic loss to the system.
    This is effective, but usually results in a waste of panel effectiveness and reduces flow of suction based devices substantially.

    There are multiple ways of dealing with the issue each with its pluses and minuses - by price


    #1 cheapest- vary the 3 way valve. (not to a level that produces standing wave or harmonics)

    #1 most expensive - The best way to do this is to use an intelliflow VF and dial in the gpm for exactly per panel as per the recommended tested spec (I.e.- I have 12 panels at optimum flow of 4gpm per panel or 48 GPM total)

    #2 Medium to large expense - size a fixed speed pump for the flow(including proper head and flow calculations). I did this plus I have a Jandy automation system

    #3 expensive- run a variable speed pump - less expensive than a VF pump, but still pretty good.

    #4 run a bigger filter- medium expense.

    Uncle Dave

    Uncle Dave
    20K Gallon Gunnite pool/900 Gallon in ground Spa/2HP Whisperflow Spa boost pump
    Pentair Master temp 400/Pentair Quad DE 60/Jandy RS-8 Aqualink/Jandy 2HP Epump (formerly 1HP whisperflow)
    12 - 4x10 Solar Panels/ Goldline Chlorinator/Barracuda G4
    Polaris LCS Leaf Canister skimmer/Pool Devil Pro/Poolskim

  8. #8
    Senior Member mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Jet / Return Eyeball, which way to set all of them?

    Maximum operating pressure on most panels is over 30 PSI (mine are 40 PSI) so I really don't think a 2 PSI pressure reduction is going to increase the life of the panels by much. With an operating pressure of 20 PSI, that is only a 10% change.

    In addition, most solar systems are installed on two story roofs where the panel pressure is a lot less than the filter pressure reading. When I measured my panel pressure on the roof, it was about 19 PSI lower than the filter. 11 PSI accounts for the static elevation rise (25 ft) and another 8 PSI dynamic loss in the filter, pipe and valves on the way up. The panels themselves only drop the pressure by 5 PSI so the exit pressure is about 4 PSI. 9-4 PSI is not that much pressure. Even panels installed on a one story roof will drop the pressure by half of what I saw or about 10 PSI.

    However, if the panels are installed on the ground and the filter pressure is close to 30 PSI, then I might be a little concerned about pressure. In that case, a bypass might be in order because the flow rate is probably too high in the panels causing excess loss.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study
    18'x36' 20k gallon plaster/gunite pool, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge Filter, 450 sq-ft EPDM Solar Panel, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater, ThePoolCleaner, DIY Acid Dosing

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