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Thread: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

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    I.Robert's Avatar
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    Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Greetings All,

    This is my introductory post. Like many before me, I'm sure, it's about the chlorine disappearing act!

    First off let me say that this forum has a wealth of knowledge and I really appreciate all of the help. It was overwhelming at first, but I quickly realized that for TFPC, no matter what, you need to SLAM it properly to solve it.

    I'm on my 5th attempt to get stable chlorine. The current attempt being the SLAM.

    Getting right into it...

    The constants:
    FC 0
    TC 0
    CC 0
    PH 7.6
    CH 266
    TA 86
    CYA (varies)
    Metals 0
    Water is clear.
    Algae very little visible on a few leaves floating around and on light dirt at liner seams.

    First 3 attempts: (CYA 64)
    1. HTH Extra Super Shock 16oz evening. Result (OTO): TC 0 in the morning
    2. HTH Extra Super Shock 16oz evening. Result (OTO): TC 0 in the morning
    3. HTH Extra Super Shock 32oz evening. Result (pool shop): TC 0 in the morning

    4. Plain household bleach 4.25% Sodium Hypochlorite 3.5gal (18ppm based on Pool Calculator with estimated CYA 58)
    i. Vacuum to waste
    ii. Replace ~10% water
    iii. Shock evening
    Result (OTO): TC >5 in the morning, TC 0 in the evening

    5th and current attempt is to SLAM!
    However, I cannot get a FAS-DPD kit this weekend, they are not readily available in Canada. I need to do this with Aquachek strips that only go to 10ppm.
    I know, this is not ideal, but I have hatched a plan to stick with the Level & Maintain as best as I can:

    I'm using the same bleach, 3.1gal (17ppm based on Pool Calculator with pool shop tested CYA 55)

    What I'm doing to get some sort of sanity out of the test strips, is to run a bucket test in parallel with the pool SLAM.
    I filled a bucket with 2gal tap water and 2gal pool water. The idea is that this bucket will have a CYA of 27.5 and will only need 13ppm to SLAM it - this brings it almost down into the test strip range.
    The fact that there is half the pool water, half the contaminants and half the CYA, everything might just balance out

    Last night I started the process.

    I put 3.1gal in the pool and 1tsp in the bucket.

    This morning's results:
    Pool: 8ppm
    Bucket: 4ppm

    They are both about 9ppm loss overnight! Great!

    I put 1.6gal in the pool and just over 1/2tsp in the bucket, to replace 9ppm in both.

    After 2 hours, we are still off the chart on both. I will bring the levels back up when I see the bucket go to 9ppm or less (testing every 2 hours).

    I'll update after the next bleaching.

    Thanks for reading and any comments on this "unorthodox" test method

    -Rob
    7400gal AG :: Hayward PowerFlo Matrix 1hp single speed pump :: Hayward Pro 150lb sand filter :: RayPak 156 150k BTU natural gas heater :: TF-100 test kit

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Wow Rob! You certainly get an "A" for improvising without the proper test kit. But in all honestly, you really need to get your hands on a Taylor K-2006. Those two variables (FC and CYA) are extremely critical for you at this stage. You will find the K-2006 here at TFTestkits.net and also (I believe) on Amazon.com. The faster you get that kit in your hands, the faster you will see more accurate results. In the meantime, I do applaud your effort to try to manage FC. Eventually though, there is no substitution for the kit. If it helps you, when I use the Poolmath calculator and plug-in bleach at the 4.25% that you used there locally, it takes about one gallon of bleach to go from an FC of zero to just over 5.

    If there is anything else we can do for you at this time, just let us know.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Welcome!

    The first three attempts at a SLAM didn't work because you don't have a proper test kit. You already know what's going to happen on the 4th SLAM attempt without a proper test kit.

    The methods here are not complicated but must be followed accurately to produce results. Buy a proper test kit. Until it arrives pour a gallon of plain bleach into the pool daily.

    Let's make your 4th SLAM the last one. Ever.
    11K gal IG screened-in plaster pool w/ spa
    pentair 150 cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflow VS pump,
    Aquarite AQR15 SWG, AquaCal Heatwave Heat Pump, TF-100 test kit

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    He can't get a TF-100 unless he drives to the states He can get a Taylor 2006 but it will cost him BUT I think it would be worth is as the SLAMS are costing him quite a bit also.

    HI! And welcome!

    One thing that sticks out to me is that you seem to only be testing and adding once or twice a day. You need to test and add at LEAST 4 times a day, more it at all possible. If you work outside the house-1 when your first get up (after coffee of course!), 2 as soon as you get home, 3 at dinner, 4 right before bed.

    Are you running the pump 24/7? That is also VERY important.

    Your method is not ideal but.............it is better than nothing for sure. I hope it works until you can get a "real" test kit. Who knows it might just work for you in the long run also.

    PLEASE keep us updated so we can see how things go.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    I.Robert's Avatar
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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Thanks for your comments, Texas & robdac.

    I am definitely getting a proper kit ASAP but need to make an attempt in the meantime, summer is too short!

    This is actually my first SLAM attempt. The other 4 were to try a regular single shock "pool store style", before I understood the SLAM.

    If this holds, I will be maintaining it religiously with a proper kit. Or at least the next SLAM will have a proper kid on hand if necessary.

    A couple things I didn't mention:
    Phosphates >2500ppb
    Ammonia 0

    Of all the reading I've done, I still don't understand what's eating all the chlorine and leaving a CC of zero?

    -Rob
    7400gal AG :: Hayward PowerFlo Matrix 1hp single speed pump :: Hayward Pro 150lb sand filter :: RayPak 156 150k BTU natural gas heater :: TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    A+ for ingenuity!! I have a question though. Do you have a source for filtered water? What I'm looking for is water with no chlorine or chloramines. If so, you could just dilute your samples and read directly.
    Example: If you mix 1/2 pool with 1/2 filtered your reading would be half. So 10 would read as 5 and 20 would read as 10. Might be easier then the bucket method...
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Have you looked at your ladder/steps? Look real close. There has been two in the past month where they found the ladder was hiding algae. BOTH of them was with the things/stuff used to weigh the ladder down.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Thanks, Kim!

    This time, since it's over the weekend, I'm on it every 2hrs in the day
    With no way to test, I didn't know what to put in at morning on my 4th try. So I left it and hoped it would hold.

    I am running recirculate 24/7 so far.

    -Rob

    P.S. Going to pull the ladder now!
    7400gal AG :: Hayward PowerFlo Matrix 1hp single speed pump :: Hayward Pro 150lb sand filter :: RayPak 156 150k BTU natural gas heater :: TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    you've probably got some algae hiding somewhere. The big thing this year is in the light. I don't have one but a number of folks have reported finding gobs of yuck in behind the light.

    You say 0 ammonia. Did you buy a test from the fish store, or is that from the pool $tore reading?
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    A+ for ingenuity!! I have a question though. Do you have a source for filtered water? What I'm looking for is water with no chlorine or chloramines. If so, you could just dilute your samples and read directly.
    Example: If you mix 1/2 pool with 1/2 filtered your reading would be half. So 10 would read as 5 and 20 would read as 10. Might be easier then the bucket method...
    Hmmmm that would be a lot easier right! I might have over-thought the test strip range problem. I could easily get some jugs of distilled water for this.
    7400gal AG :: Hayward PowerFlo Matrix 1hp single speed pump :: Hayward Pro 150lb sand filter :: RayPak 156 150k BTU natural gas heater :: TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Quote Originally Posted by I.Robert View Post

    A couple things I didn't mention:
    Phosphates >2500ppb
    Ammonia 0

    Of all the reading I've done, I still don't understand what's eating all the chlorine and leaving a CC of zero?

    -Rob
    Don't worry about phosphates unless your start a pool store and want to sell stuff people don't need.

    Two things eat chlorine; sun and algae. You'll get a proper test kit and figure out the CYA. That will solve the sun problem. A proper SLAM will solve the algae problem and you'll be set. Until then, I would put a gallon of bleach a day into the pool. That should keep the problem from getting worse.
    11K gal IG screened-in plaster pool w/ spa
    pentair 150 cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflow VS pump,
    Aquarite AQR15 SWG, AquaCal Heatwave Heat Pump, TF-100 test kit

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    I.Robert's Avatar
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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Thanks again!

    Ammonia test was for a fish tank.

    Pulled the stairs and mat, they are squeaky clean. No light housing to worry about either.

    So, invisible algae + sun can eat this much chlorine at CYA 55, leaving behind no CC?

    -Rob
    7400gal AG :: Hayward PowerFlo Matrix 1hp single speed pump :: Hayward Pro 150lb sand filter :: RayPak 156 150k BTU natural gas heater :: TF-100 test kit

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Your next "job" is the OCLT. I will post the link to it. THAT will be the big test to see what is going on.

    Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT)

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    how old is the bleach? 4.25% is really low. Wonder if there is a place up there where you can get stronger stuff? I have read of a place called Canadian Tire that carries just about everything.

    Since the ammonia test was done by you we can assume that isn't the culprit.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    I will need to dilute to do the OCLT. Hey, it's something and I'm already in, I need to continue.

    Brand new bleach - the 4.25% is the strongest generic at Walmart up here. It's equiv. $1.50 USD/gal, so I am not spending huge so far despite the low concentration.
    I haven't checked "Crappy Tire"

    I read a 6ppm loss in 4hrs and just dumped in 1.1gal.

    -Rob
    7400gal AG :: Hayward PowerFlo Matrix 1hp single speed pump :: Hayward Pro 150lb sand filter :: RayPak 156 150k BTU natural gas heater :: TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Hottest/brightest 2 hours of the day: 0.89gal added

    ...and we just lost power! Too many pool pumps and A/Cs in the town?
    7400gal AG :: Hayward PowerFlo Matrix 1hp single speed pump :: Hayward Pro 150lb sand filter :: RayPak 156 150k BTU natural gas heater :: TF-100 test kit

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Use a straw broom to mix the bleach into the water.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Power is back!
    Final 1.2gal added and OCLT is on deck. See you tomorrow
    7400gal AG :: Hayward PowerFlo Matrix 1hp single speed pump :: Hayward Pro 150lb sand filter :: RayPak 156 150k BTU natural gas heater :: TF-100 test kit

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    I.Robert's Avatar
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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Good Morning!

    Here are the readings. I'm not sure how I feel about it but I guess that's test strips for ya...

    Last night:
    Diluted 1:1 = >10ppm (>20, which was above my target of 17 - maybe the final bleach hadn't mixed yet?)
    Diluted 1:2.5 = 5

    This morning:
    Diluted 1:1 = 9
    Diluted 1:2.5 = 3

    Should I stop and see how much I lose throughout the day?

    -Rob

    P.S. TF-100 has been ordered.
    7400gal AG :: Hayward PowerFlo Matrix 1hp single speed pump :: Hayward Pro 150lb sand filter :: RayPak 156 150k BTU natural gas heater :: TF-100 test kit

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    poolnoob.ca's Avatar
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    Re: Can't keep the chlorine in - SLAMming in Canada!

    Hi rob, crappy has aquarius liquid chlorine 10.8% in a 5L jug for $4.99
    32,000L Fibreglass Leisure Pools IG 12.5'x23'x5' Pump: AstralPools BX1 1.0HP
    Filter: AstralPools ZX-310 SWCG: AstralPools VX7T
    Heater: Hayward H250FDN Test Kit: TF-100

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