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Thread: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

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    Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Bought a short sale where the pool has been sitting for over a year. It has a cartrige filter. Where do I begin? I have had 3 pools before, but have never been here, but have to do this. Need a T-Shirt with help!
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    TizMe's Avatar
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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Welcome to TFP !

    You can start by reading through our Pool School Section .
    It would be helpful to know what type of chlorination the previous people were using before you.

    Do some reading, make a trip to the store to get lots and lots of bleach and when you think you have enough get more. You should also get yourself a reliable test kit. most here use the TF100 test kit (available through this forum) or the testing kit sold by Taylor.

    Get your list of questions ready and ask away there are all kinds of people here with tons of experience !!

    Keep posting pictures as you get control of your pool. In no time you will have a crystal clear pool you never
    thought you would have !!

    It would also be helpful if you listed your pool size and equipment in your signature so when we answer your questions we will better be able to help you. Also a full set of numbers from a test would help us to see where we stand chemical wise and be ble to give you more advice.


    Good Luck !
    Les
    Don't have a pool right now. Just sharing what I have learned over the years!
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Welcome to TFP!

    You want to start with an evaluation of the equipment, is it all there, does the pump run, are the any significant leaks. Then work on getting all of the solid debris out of the pool that you possibly can. Once you have the great majority of the debris out and the pump running and the filter filtering you can start fighting the algae. A good write up on fighting algae is Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparking Oasis
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Unfortunately, I will not get possesion of the house for another 5 weeks so it will get worse. There is no electricty on the house soooooooooooooooo. Will it hurt to throw bleach in it without the pump running?

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    There isn't any point in adding chlorine until you are fully prepared and ready to start fighting the algae for real. Any chlorine you add now will get used up almost instantly and the algae will just grow back in a day or so.

    If you do have some access, you should get a water sample and test the water. If the PH is way off that is worth adjusting sooner rather than later. With a little more access, you could get a pole and net and start seeing what you can dredge up from the bottom.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    To kill algae requires quite a bit of chlorine and by the time you are done, it might have been faster and cheaper to just replace the water given the size of your pool. You will still need chlorine to kill what is left over but not nearly as much. It also depends on what you pay for water. Something to consider.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    I know you guys just hate pool store products, but I'd sure consider some ProTeam System Support when the time comes....
    http://www.swimmingpool.com/

    "Leave the gun...take the cannolis"

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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    I would have to second System Support. It's not cheap but it is designed to clear a pool such as this quickly (usually within about 48 hours) and it will make any stuff on the bottom float to the top so it can be easily skimmed out!
    The stuff really does work!

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    Rockcrawler's Avatar
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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    I would have to agree with mas985, drain it, while its draining start skimming the water getting the big stuff out, if you don't drain it, just remember while your tackling the algae and running the pump/filter 24/7 you will have to watch your pressure and clean the filter appropriately.

    Positive note, nice palm trees next to the pool
    13,000 IG Plaster, 2hp whisperflo pump, 48 sq in pentair DE Filter, 1 skimmer, 2 eyeball outlets, 200 sq ft solar panels on second story, Auto Pilot SWG-36, Polaris ATV Cleaner

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Draining has advantages and disadvantages. Before draining you need to be sure that there isn't any chance of the pool floating out, ie you need to know that the water table is below the bottom of the pool. Draining is most worth it if there is really a lot of stuff on the bottom. Once drained you can go into the pool and really get everything out all at once. Draining is also a great idea if any significant amount of fertilizer has gotten into the pool. The disadvantage to draining is that it doesn't necessarily take care of the algae. The algae can grow right back while you are refilling. So draining isn't such a good deal if there isn't much on the bottom to begin with.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Ditto on what Jason said!

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    H2O_Keeper's Avatar
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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Congrats on the house!

    You have to weigh out the small risk (potential dammage about water table) vs cost savings for draining. I beleive the response about draining as an option was intended more for the time (adding chems, testing, brushing, changing filters/backwashing) and the monetary value of the bleach opposed to your time for a drain/clean and the local cost for water refill. But with the refill you have a chance some algae could still be behind (even with cleaning/powerwashing/etc) and have to still fight it. The battle should be much easier though.....

    Either way you will have a fan of interested readers that would like to see your progress. If possible include your approach, pics, and water test results as you go. Some of the gurus here may be able to give additional advice if you need any deviations beyond pool school articles.

    You won't need luck, you will have the knowledge and support through TFP!
    21K Gal, IG, Vinyl, Bleach-Borax-Baking Soda, 3/4HP Hayward pump, Hayward sand filter, 200,000BTU Heater, TF100 Testkit
    "All that we are arises with our thoughts." - Buddha
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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Quote Originally Posted by H2O_Keeper
    I beleive the response about draining as an option was intended more for the time (adding chems, testing, brushing, changing filters/backwashing) and the monetary value of the bleach opposed to your time for a drain/clean and the local cost for water refill.
    Which is why Budster and myself suggested Proteam's very excellent product System Support. Both of us work in the industry and this product is not as well known as it deserves to be, IMHO. It is designed for pools such as this to clear them quickly and economically and it is the only product of its formulation on the market (sodium percarbonate) being sold for this usage. (the amount of chlorine needed to clear this pool would very possible cost quite a bit more than the System Support and Dry acid needed.)

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Wow! I think that's the greenest pool I've ever seen!

    Congratulations!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Thank you all for your help. I will be glad to share my progress when it starts. I have no access to the property until I get the keys in April. Will see you all at that time. Any other recommendations will be eagerly read. One other thing....I have always had a DE filter. This is a cartridge, should I keep it or upgrade to DE before I start?

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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    One other thing....I have always had a DE filter. This is a cartridge, should I keep it or upgrade to DE before I start?
    Well, in your case, both are going to add to your workload clearing the pool....especially DE.

    Unless you drain and refill, you are gonna have a bunch of garbage trapped in your filter as you start the clearing process. Carts will need to be cleaned frequently and DE's will need to be backwashed and charged many times. If a sand filter has any advantages, it would be in clearing a nasty pool. You simply backwash and keep on truckin'.....perhaps 10 times or more as you keep filtering out the junk.

    BTW, I am in favor of clearing your pool with plain ole' Clorox and following the regimen Jasonlion suggested. It can certainly be done with any of the three types of filters but will simply require some more work with either DE or a cart.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    (the amount of chlorine needed to clear this pool would very possible cost quite a bit more than the System Support and Dry acid needed.)
    poolgeek.com sells ProTeam System Support here for $80.73 for 25 pounds. It's pure sodium percarbonate at 157.01 g/mole for 1 sodium carbonate (105.99 g/mole or 67.5%) and 1.5 hydrogen peroxide (1.5*34.015 g/mole or 32.5%). However, though the consumption/usage of chlorine is an acidic process, this is not the case for hydrogen peroxide (because it's half-reaction consumes twice as much hydrogen ion).

    For 0.675*25=16.875 pounds of sodium carbonate it takes 256 fluid ounces of full-strength Muriatic Acid (31.45% Hydrochloric Acid) to compensate for pH, but the TA will be increased substantially so accounting for that it would take a total of 488 fluid ounces of acid to get back to the original TA (not added all at once, but via the Lowering Total Alkalinity procedure). It's around $8 per gallon for the acid so that is $8*488/128 = $30.50.

    For 0.325*25=8.125 pounds of hydrogen peroxide, this is equivalent to 16.935 pounds of chlorine gas or 16.2 gallons of 12.5% chlorinating liquid which would produce around 203 ppm FC in 10,000 gallons. The cost per gallon of chlorinating liquid (where I buy it) is around $3.65 per gallon so this would be $59.13.

    So, the cost comparison is $80.73 + $30.50 = $111.23 for using the ProTeam System Support and acid vs. $59.13 for chlorinating liquid.

    It's still cheaper to use chlorine, but it takes longer and doesn't have the extra benefits of making stuff rise from the bottom of the pool.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Help Solid Green Florida One Year No Circulation

    I really, really, really like having a cartridge filter myself. In the instructions that came with my cartridge filter, (a Hayward) they did suggest if you have heavy cleanup, ie. Spring opening, to install a 3 way valve in order to vacuum to waste. I just bought a 3 way valve for mine, myself, and am going to install it soon. Something to think about.
    Above ground soft side Omega pool
    20 feet diameter, 4 feet deep
    Hayward sand filter
    Hayward 1 HP Matrix pump
    Hayward Aquabug Automatic Pool Cleaner

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