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Thread: Time, energy and money wasted

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    Time, energy and money wasted

    We have a two year old remodeled pool;
    25000 gallon
    pebble sheen
    sand filter
    FAC .5
    TAC .5
    CYA 160
    TA 90
    pH 7.3
    Copper 0
    Iron 0
    TDS 2500
    Phosphate 400
    green for thirteen days
    I live in Phoenix btw....temps have been above 100 for well over two months. My husband normally takes care of the pool. We are having a pool party for our son's birthday this Saturday 7/18 and need a clear pool.

    He shocked it on the first day of noticing green. It got worse. The pool store said our water chemistry was fine. Shocked it again. It started to clear up then it got worse. Then I took over. I put 4# Yellow Gone into it Monday night. Nothing. Tested water here, everything still looked good. Tuesday I put 14# shock into it. Took sample to pool store they said LOW chlorine levels....they recommended ash, algeacide, more shock....I thought, no not taking their advice. So I researched:
    And I found out not to listen to pool store people because they just want to sell you junk. Everyone I have spoken with says liquid chlorine.....liquid chlorine LOTS of liquid chlorine. So last night I went and bought 12 gallona and dumped in 10. IT Is STILL GREEN.
    My husband just opened the filter and the sand is gorgeous. ....the guy who redid our pool just said to lower the phosphates. I have GOT to get this pool clear by Saturday.....we have been trying for over a week. Someone please tell me what the is wrong here??????

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    Welcome!

    Your Cya is too high, and you weren't getting enough Chlorine in to overcome it. It may be much higher than 160 actually, but you'll never know until you have a good kit of your own to test it. Sadly, pool store results are often very wrong, especially on Cya. Saturday is out I'm afraid, it simply can't be corrected in a day or two. If you want control of this, you'll need to acquire a proper kit, build some knowledge, get off the pool store advice and do this yourself. All the help and information you need is here on the forum. Oh, forget the phosphates. Algae is the problem, and free Chlorine fixes that problem.
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    wjaneala's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    Welcome from another newbie.

    First thing I see is that your CYA is WAY too high. Most importantly, you need to perform a SLAM.

    Do you have your own test kit?
    Wendy
    1980s 20x40 in-ground beast, 36K gallons, 4' - 8', vinyl liner, Sand Dollar sand filter, two skimmers, bottom drain, three returns
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    Its funny cuz I went to two stores, one said CYA was 160 one said it was 80....
    I dont believe our test kit even tests the CYA. I know its too high. My game plan was to increase the chlorine to 25 ppm until it was clear and then keep the chlorine at 8-10 ppm until fall when we can drain and refill.
    I thought with such high chlorine levels it would remedy the situation over night but I guess not.
    We had a plaster pool, 35 years old, never had this long of a problem. My husband always took care of it and cleared up algae within five days. Now all of a sudden our remodeled pool, pebble sheen, new filter, pump, dedicated line, auto fill and tile and we have this ongoing issue. He has been using the same chlorine tabs (with stabilize) for ten years and all of a sudden this has become an issue. Why? I told him to stop using the tabs because we are just adding more CYA into the pool and to stick with liquid chlorine only.....
    Oh we tested the water and hour ago and it has so much chlorine it turned test water orange.
    My boys are going to be very disappointed..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh and everything I have learned about pools and chemistry I learned yesterday on here....
    We have a test kit but it isnt a fancy one. It tests chlorine, pH and a few other things.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    Rest assured, we were all in the same position as you at one time which is why we do what we do now ... help others. Your note about conflicting pool store results is yet another confirmation why we stay away from those places and recommend having our own (proper) test kit. If you have any more questions about the right test kit to use, or the one you are currently using, feel free to ask. We can't change you water to clear in a day or two, but we can help get you on-track to make it happen and stay that way all year long.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    My friend did pools here for ten years. He told me bleach is bad for thr equipment. Regular household bleach is what people use to SLAM pools? Also how much does the fancy pool tests run?
    I am not sure I trust pool store diagnostics anymore. ..

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    domct203's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    Quote Originally Posted by themamacurd View Post
    My friend did pools here for ten years. He told me bleach is bad for thr equipment. Regular household bleach is what people use to SLAM pools? Also how much does the fancy pool tests run?
    I am not sure I trust pool store diagnostics anymore. ..
    You should tell your friend that bleach is the same sanitizer that is in that hockey-puck, just without the "baggage"

    Any large addition of chlorine can be bad for the pool, either in liquid, solid, or granular form.

    That's why TFPC stresses that you don't go blindly dumping chemicals into your pool, and that includes chlorine. Get a proper test kit so you know EXACTLY what your pool needs.

    Dom
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    And another thing; the guy who redid our pool has been a close friend with my husband for about twenty years, he told us we need to add clarifier. ......
    !??!?!?!
    One person tells me this and one person tells me that....and it isnt like I have a ton of money to dump into this pool. We are trying to slllowllly climb out of debt. I am trying to look at it as if if I dont spend the $$ now I am going to soend double in the future. So I am worried about prices on things, like pool store chemicals are significantly higher than WalMart or Home Depot....
    Is it necessary I purchase chemicals from pool stores or does it matter? Potency and effectiveness wise?
    Thia is beginning to really depress me.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    You're right! It IS ridiculous how expensive pool store products are at the pool store. Even more reason to love TFP because most items you need you can get at Wal-Mart or your local grocery/hardware store for a fraction of the price. The most common item you will need is regular "generic" liquid bleach. Easy! They don't dare tell you that at the pool store. Just make sure you have one of the recommended test kits in-hand so you can do this yourself. With the right test kit, you'll see it all come together perfectly.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    swoopman's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    Don't add clarifier. They often cause more problems then they solve.

    Phosphates are irrelevant in a properly chlorinated pool (i.e. following TFP recommendations). Don't add phosphate removers either.

    Sadly most pool people do not understand pool chemistry, whether builders, stores or friends.

    You have found THE place to solve your pool problems. Follow the advice here, ignore everyone else.

    Extremely high levels of chlorine can cause damage whether it's from pool store chemicals or bleach. Bleach is the same ingredient as liquid chlorine shock just at a different strength. The key to avoiding damage and cleaning up the pool is knowing how much to add and when.

    To know how much to add you must have a good test kit. Order the TF-100 from TFTestkits.net and get the XL option. It may seem like an added expense but will save you much more than it costs.

    Once you have your pool under control the costs following the TFP pool method are minimal. Mainly some bleach which can be bought at Walmart, Target and grocery stores and probably some MA (muriatic acid for pH adjustment) available at local hardware stores.

    IMO the only shot of having the pool ready for Saturday is to order the test kit with overnight shipping and be prepared to do a major drain and refill tomorrow. Even with that there is no guarantee it would be ready for the party. If you are willing to let go of the Saturday date then order the kit with standard shipping and as soon as you have it post your results and people here will guide you to a sparkly, clean pool.
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    jcowart's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    Quote Originally Posted by themamacurd View Post
    My friend did pools here for ten years. He told me bleach is bad for thr equipment. Regular household bleach is what people use to SLAM pools? Also how much does the fancy pool tests run?
    I am not sure I trust pool store diagnostics anymore. ..
    Bleach is just a trade name for a certain percentage of sodium hypochlorite. Once any form of chlorine is added to the pool it becomes just that.... chlorine. This site teaches how to accurately test and only add chemicals that are needed. Liquid chlorine 10%-12.5% or household bleach 8.25% or less is all the same product. It is used because it does not add any negative byproducts other than a little salt. Solid forms add chlorine, salt and either CYA or calcium. Over a short time the CYA gets to be so high you effectively have no chlorine that is unbound by CYA. That's where the pool stores use the made up term "chlorine lock". You have come to the right place to take control over your pool. The pool stores will gladly test your water for free but want you to buy several hundreds in chemicals. That is the business they are in. Invest in a good FAS/DPD test kit. The taylor 2006 or TF-100 use the same regents for the testing. The TF-100 is your best bang for the buck. That is a kit that is made to go hand in hand with what you will learn from this site. You will get more testing chemicals for the tests that need to be done very often. The 2006 will all be the same size regents so you will run out of certain regents very quickly. The TF-100 is ordered from tftestkits.net for 68.00. The 2006 can be ordered just about anywhere for around 45.00. Very few stores will have the FAS/DPD kit. If they sell Taylor kits then most likly it will be the Taylor 2005. They will tell you all day long that it's the kit you need but it's not. It will be missing the most important chlorine test. I don't see you getting a clear pool by this weekend. This site does not use the word shock. Shock is a pool store term of quickly raising chlorine and hope for the best. 9 times out of 10 it does not work. We use the term SLAM. The chlorine level is based off the CYA level. It is a process that needs to be maintained from start to finish. Your shock level for 160ppm of CYA is 63ppm. The best thing to do is major water replacement, read and learn, and ask questions.
    17500 gallon Doughboy AGP, Hayward DE filter, waiting for the 1.5hp DB pump to go out.
    Learn to take the advice here and be trouble free or use the pool store's advice. "You can't do both and get very far"

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    you don't need clarifier when your pool is totally clear every day already .

    You will need to make a decision though, to commit to TFPC or adopt the pool store/my-friend-said method. You can't hedge.
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
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    jcowart's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    This site will teach you to look of the chemical name, not the trade name. You walk into a pool store and buy a 4lb tub of TA Increaser for $16 when you can goto the grocery store in the baking isle and pickup 4 one pound boxes of baking soda for 49 cents each. They are the same chemical.
    17500 gallon Doughboy AGP, Hayward DE filter, waiting for the 1.5hp DB pump to go out.
    Learn to take the advice here and be trouble free or use the pool store's advice. "You can't do both and get very far"

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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    Draining the pool, even partially is out of the question during summer in Phoenix. The heat will ruin the pool.
    I called everyone to let them know the party is canclled until further notice.....just haven't told my boys yet

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    You need to know what your CYA really is before deciding what the next step is. Order a TF100 from TFTestkits.net.

    Chlorine level is set based on CYA level and the Chlorine CYA Chart.

    Here is more info on pool chemicals, what they are, what they do and how to add them. I get my stuff from the grocery store and Lowes or Target. Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals. I have never been to a pool store since my pool was built.
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    I have a sad for you and the boys

    BUT we CAN help you get the pool clear and it will be SO much cheaper than ever before!

    Let us know when you have your test kit and we will go from there!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    swoopman's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    The kit is the first priority so you can determine how to proceed based on FACTS (test results). Once you post results people here will help.

    Sorry for your boys about the cancelled party but agree it's the best call.

    As for draining, if you search around the forum you will find suggestions and what others have done. There is a wealth of information here if you are willing to look for it. For example:

    Duraleigh: You can do a series of partial drains and refills and lower the actual level very little. I takes a little more water but is safer than a total drain in your hot climate.

    You can also drain from the deep end on the bottom and refill simultaneously from the surface of the shallow end. If you do that you will never change your water level.

    Ted Y: I did a drain and refill last weekend in Phoenix. I also have a 12k pebble tech pool. I rented a pump from Home Depot that drained it in 4 hours. I have three hose spigots combined with the auto leveler that refilled it in 8 hours.

    If you started at 7 PM, it would be empty by 11 and refilled by 7 or 8 AM. Easy.
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  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    My pool is twice the size of this person's .....it cant be drained and refilled over night. We have drained our older plaster pool several times and I know how long it takes.

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    I was recently in about the same shape , pool stores and pool maintenance services really had us messed up / BUT after finding tfp got one of there testkits in less then a week my pool looks and feels awsome we spend about 10 minutes day if that to check and maintain / If this old lazy hippie can do this anyone can

    Good times comming
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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Time, energy and money wasted

    We won't steer you wrong, but you'll have to decide who's advice to follow. It sounds like it might be a problem with the friend/pool guy involved, but mixing all the advice will cause you more grief. It will also lead to limited success most likely as well. I know it's already frustrating and confusing, but what we suggest will work if you try it. I say it a lot, but look around the forum and see how many others have been where you are and have easy to care for beautiful pools. All those stories speak for themselves. We don't have magic, but base our principles on solid science and simple facts that get the job done. The cornerstone of it all is knowledge, testing, and understanding.
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