Video of my cleaning "system"

[Davegvg]

In a suction based cleaning environment this is the combination of components that works well for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdwxCZDvzI

1. Cleaner- Zodiac Barracuda G4
2. Polaris LCS leaf cannister skimmer

(3) added in after this video- a pool devil pro just to see if I could catch more dust- I can, but it doesn't really create a "circular flow" like they claim, its worth the 20+ bones it cost IMHO


I found the rolling type cleaners dont work as well (for me) as the really simple suction ones.
By adding the Polaris LCS piece not only do I get my skimmer back, I get a better working skimmer that the built in wall unit.

I know a pressure side cleaner is probably faster but overall I dont see how it could be a lot better than this setup and when you factor in the cost of additional lines pumps, and electricity- this is a lot cheaper. It works so well off one pump with no additional complexity its really hard to beat.
The next thing Im going to try is a "Poolskim" return powered skimmer at the step end.

Later an intelliflo VF pump and that should allow me to tune the system further.

"Uncle Dave"

 

[budster]

Very clever and effective!

 

[Davegvg]

Other noticeable benefits of this set up are-

1. I only I have to clean the pump basket about once a month. The LCS's basket has really good flow and filtration for a fixed plastic piece, it is much better at holding debris than my Pentair in line leaf canister, that said it is probably not as good as the mesh filtered leaf canisters I have seen.

2. Filter backwashing time gets extended moderately about another week or two.

3. The LCS to Skimmer hose side of the LCS has a built in swivel. This allows a bit of extra hose and cleaner articulation which mildly increasing cleaner maneuverability- not as much as say a pool pivot pro, but enough to notice its coverage is better than when the skimmer has no swivel at all and is directly connected.


If I could find a way to fit a skimmer sock inside the LCS somehow it would be even better, but I don't think its remotely possible.......


Davegvg

 

[el duderino]

That's pretty slick.

Do they make anything similar to help with leaf collection on a pressure side cleaner?

 

[Davegvg]

That's pretty slick.

Do they make anything similar to help with leaf collection on a pressure side cleaner?

Not that I have seen-but you could conceivably plug the open suctions side of one of these seems kind of a waste.

You could use a couple of pool devils at a bout 28 bucks a piece they work pretty well but you'd need at least 2

or you could try a poolskim its about 90 bones and with enough flow will work better than you built in skimmer.

How may returns do you have and how much flow do you have in the system in terms of GPM?

Uncle Dave

 

[Guest]

That's pretty slick.

Do they make anything similar to help with leaf collection on a pressure side cleaner?

Not really needed on pressure side cleaners, they have their own collection bags and don't have the drawbacks cited above that suction side cleaners suffer from. The dirt and leaves do not get sucked into the filter and pump strainer so there is no need for this type of setup. This is one of the big advantages pressure side cleaners (and robots) have over suction side ones. Suction side cleaner suck everything into the filter and pump strainer basket. The leaf catcher is just basically an inline strainer basket to simplify the cleaning (no need to open the pump strainer).

 

[Davegvg]

That's pretty slick.

Do they make anything similar to help with leaf collection on a pressure side cleaner?

Not really needed on pressure side cleaners, they have their own collection bags and don't have the drawbacks cited above that suction side cleaners suffer from. The dirt and leaves do not get sucked into the filter and pump strainer so there is no need for this type of setup. This is one of the big advantages pressure side cleaners (and robots) have over suction side ones. Suction side cleaner suck everything into the filter and pump strainer basket. The leaf catcher is just basically an inline strainer basket to simplify the cleaning (no need to open the pump strainer).

Although pressure side cleaners do have their own collection bags there are a couple of things to consider.

Its better to get the debris off the surface before it sinks to begin with- a suction side cleaner bag and all does not save you from skimming before swimming. Any time debris sinks it start using up free chlorine, clouding the water.

Suction side cleaners (like the legend) often have odd shaped mouths that refuse to pick up leafs attached to short branches- whereas the larger opening of a skimmer has no problems with off shaped debris.

Uncle dave

 

[Guest]

There are pros and cons to every cleaner type. Personally I prefer a cleaner that does not suck the dirt into the filter so it can be removed from the pool easier. Also suction side, particularly the random pattern ones like the G4, are very sensitive to water flow patterns in the pool so return jet aiming becomes a bit more critical in many cases. The programmed pattern cleaners like the Hayward navigator do not really suffer from this problem (but introduce their own set of problems because they are mechanically more complicated.) One of the main reasons for the popularity of suction side cleaners is that, unless a pool is built with a pressure return, it is very hard to retrofit them and the booster pump is an added expense (and the non booster models just don't work that well). However, IMHO, a booster pump model pressure side does have a bit of an edge on a suction cleaner when it comes to maintaining a clean pool. (I will admit that I have probably sold 10 suction side cleaners to every pressure side sold, for the reasons stated above.)

 

[Davegvg]

Agreed on the pros and cons of cleaners. There is no single panacea- but multiple products used concurrently can come really close!

In my mind I separate the skimming function from cleaning.
The better the skimming the less work your cleaner has to do.
Since "the dude" already has a pressure line- he should use a pressure cleaner.
That said he's still got the skimming problem to contend with.

Most pool builders don't take prevailing winds in to account when placing a skimmer and the owner ends up with a bunch of Crud on one side of the pool or the other usually where the skimmer is not. This is where the poolskim, or pool devil seem to work well.

In the case of a suction side cleaner combined wit the LCS product you get a better skimmer than the built in one.
In the case of the cheaper less functional vac-mate you get your skimmer back at about half its original effectiveness.

I find that multiple cleaning products just work better than any single solution be it pressure or suction.
IMHO - Pressure stand alone being better than suction stand alone because of no skimmer loss.

I've had 4 different pools over my life-I really liked my previous pools dedicated pressure line and the 360 I used, and when I got this pool I feared I wouldnt be able to get by with a lone suction side cleaner because of what I was used to.

I was right.

IMHO - a single suction side cleaner alone just doesn't cut it in areas that have a high contaminant introduction rate- as the loss of the skimmer causes EVERYTHING to end up on the bottom. However I do find that this dual (or triple) product setup works as well or better than my lone pressure side cleaner simply because the better skimming gets most of the crud before it falls.

As for cleanup- I pull the LCS out by its handle and with one quick dump you clean the skimmer and cleaner containers in one pass- easier than the 360 I had. I didn't like the fact that fine debris would leak out of the bag when the pump shut off and had to be re cleaned, but I hear the new letro fixes that.

Waterbear- for your clients that cant add a pressure line -I believe you can add the LCS product in with whatever house suction cleaner you sell in an honest and faithful manner as the combo does produce results equal or better than any single cleaner alone I've used.

Uncle Dave

 

[el duderino]

somewhere I saw a remote control boat that skims the surface for leaves. While that seems sort of fun (if not gimmicky), I thought it would be cool if you could take that idea and put it on a timer and have it drive around the top of the water randomly picking up leaves during the day.

Of course, there could already be something like that on the market?? If not, why?

 

[el duderino]

I think I might have answered my own question:

http://www.h2opoolproducts.com/product_ ... ts_id=1035

Love the google!

 

[Davegvg]

If you've added the LCS, AND a poolskim/pooldevil - this item would likely be redundant.
It would also effect any items dependant on a hose that floats while running.

Uncle Dave

 

[chezhed]

I like this idea...I've avoided a suction side cleaner because I didn't want to lose the skimmer. This solves that problem and on top of that, uses the suction cleaner that I had considered buying.

Pool is plumbed for a pressure side cleaner but I really wonder if that is needed and thought this might be cheaper/easier.

Opinions are appreciated.

New to pools...put one in last year, very free form design with 2 T waterfall on one end and "beached whale" platform on the other. 6' deep at fall. It's really a very, very large plunge pool almost. Built for adults. 3 T of spouse labor flagstone around pool and lots of greenery (water iris, cannas, grasses) in free form areas and dwarf monkey grass between flagstones. Very shaded area...pool never got above 86 F last summer. (Was 56 on New Year's Day when we jumped in

Made it through winter with a leaf net tented over pool which worked great! Now the spring leaf hulls, maple wings, etc are all over. A new season...a new challenge :-D

 

[Davegvg]

I like this idea...I've avoided a suction side cleaner because I didn't want to lose the skimmer. This solves that problem and on top of that, uses the suction cleaner that I had considered buying.

Pool is plumbed for a pressure side cleaner but I really wonder if that is needed and thought this might be cheaper/easier.

Opinions are appreciated.

New to pools...put one in last year, very free form design with 2 T waterfall on one end and "beached whale" platform on the other. 6' deep at fall. It's really a very, very large plunge pool almost. Built for adults. 3 T of spouse labor flagstone around pool and lots of greenery (water iris, cannas, grasses) in free form areas and dwarf monkey grass between flagstones. Very shaded area...pool never got above 86 F last summer. (Was 56 on New Year's Day when we jumped in

Made it through winter with a leaf net tented over pool which worked great! Now the spring leaf hulls, maple wings, etc are all over. A new season...a new challenge :-D

Sounds bit chen I wanna go for a swim!

Your main problem seems to be skimming, getting this stuff as soon as it hits the pool is critical.

This combo on video provide adequate cleaning and better than average skimming and super easy debris dumping.

How many returns do you have? Each return can become a "skimmer" with a pool devil or poolskim.
Pool devils are cheap and very non invasive to both swimmers and cleaners.
During times of heavy contamination 2-3 of these babies will clean you up pretty quick and keep you clean while the pump is running.

Pooolskim is more invasive to both swimmers and cleaners- but more effective and expensive.


Question- Why would you buy a suction side cleaner if you had a pool plumbed for pressure?
You'll find the pressure cleaner to likely be a lot faster so you can clean for a few hours then take it out and swim or just swim without it moving around bothering you.

Uncle Dave

 

[Guest]

Waterbear- for your clients that cant add a pressure line -I believe you can add the LCS product in with whatever house suction cleaner you sell in an honest and faithful manner as the combo does produce results equal or better than any single cleaner alone I've used.

Uncle Dave

Actually, We have found the Hayward in line leaf basket to be quite dependable and reasonable in price. (And we stock the Polaris and the Zodiac also.)
Not sure what neck of the woods you are in but here most pools are designed with adequate surface skimming and many (probably the majority) are enclosed.

Also, the 'in house' suction sides we sell would be the Zodiac line.

 

[Guest]

Do they make anything similar to help with leaf collection on a pressure side cleaner?

It's called the Hayward Phantom.

 

[Davegvg]

Waterbear- for your clients that cant add a pressure line -I believe you can add the LCS product in with whatever house suction cleaner you sell in an honest and faithful manner as the combo does produce results equal or better than any single cleaner alone I've used.

Uncle Dave

Actually, We have found the Hayward in line leaf basket to be quite dependable and reasonable in price. (And we stock the Polaris and the Zodiac also.)
Not sure what neck of the woods you are in but here most pools are designed with adequate surface skimming and many (probably the majority) are enclosed.

Also, the 'in house' suction sides we sell would be the Zodiac line.

You say in your previous post- "The leaf catcher is just basically an inline strainer basket to simplify the cleaning (no need to open the pump strainer)."

Its more than that- its a skimmer that happens to have has an inline leaf trap. It performs 2 functions filtering the debris from the suction cleaner, and skimming.

I dont understand why you would recommend an inline filter in place of a remote skimmer (LCS) ?
They aren't remotely the same thing. I have a Hayward in line leaf basket as well, but it does not skim, its a filter for a cleaner that picks up debris already on the pool floor.

My neck of the woods is Los Angeles where most pools are cranked out cheaply and poorly designed.
Ive never been able to build my own pool but always seem to inherit a clean up of someone else's problem.

Question - whose suction side cleaner do you like best?

Uncle Dave

 

[Guest]

I will say up front that I am not a fan of suction sides. However, for a random pattern cleaner I would have to say the Zodiac ones and for a patterned cleaner I would go with the Hayward Navigator, even though it has many more moving parts. In many installations such a patterened cleaner is the only way to get fuller coverage of the cleaning area.

I think the point that needs to be stressed is that there is no ONE combination of products or devices that will work for all situations. In just considering suction side cleaners some installations will do better with a random pattern cleaner and other will need a patterened cleaner to get fuller coverage. While the combo you suggested is certainly workable it is an expensive option that is not needed for a vast majority of installations and to recommend such a setup across the board would be doing a disservice to my customers.

 

[Davegvg]

I never said one combo worked in all situations.

In my exuberance at actually finding a product that worked I should not have boldly suggest you can recommend it- Ill publicly retract that statement. My bad.

I will recommend it for those using a suction side cleaner- the LCS is a good product and really helps.
I've documented it, and lived with it, and Ive had 4 pools and many types of cleaners and can say this combo is really effective.

I started this thread to show poeple with a suction side cleaner they can use this combo and get good results- I thought sharing info what was this forum was all about.

I think its a known fact that suction side cleaners render the skimmer useless, and that this solution brings back that functionality.

I just do not understand your recommendation to replace the LCS with a leaf trap.
If you have any documentation or video of a better suction side combo Id love to see it- and would probably buy it.


Uncle Dave

 

[chezhed]

Your main problem seems to be skimming, getting this stuff as soon as it hits the pool is critical.

[center:2xr6vk2w]BINGO![/center:2xr6vk2w]

Question- Why would you buy a suction side cleaner if you had a pool plumbed for pressure?
You'll find the pressure cleaner to likely be a lot faster so you can clean for a few hours then take it out and swim or just swim without it moving around bothering you.

Uncle Dave

I should say "stub" plumbed for a pressure side. I still need valve and possible pump...that I'm just not sure about. How is the best way to determine that?

I have 4 returns so I will check into these devils as a possibility. Thanks....