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Thread: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

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    Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Hi. I'm new to the forum so please bear with me...
    I'm considering moving some of the equipment from its present location to a location better suited. The new location is roughly 100' from the present location and at roughly the same grade. My thought is leave the in-floor distribution hub where it is now and pipe from old location to new location the following:
    • Distribution hub - 2" (the feed to the heads may be 1.5"; 5 stations; 11 total heads); no other returns
    • Water Feature - (to be added, two features T'd to one 2"? at most each a spill of 3'-4' to pool surface)
    • Skimmer/Main Drain Combined - 2"
    • Vacuum Line - (to be added. 2"?)
    • Pool Drain Line - 1.5"


    My initial question is whether the 100' run is doable, and if so, whether I should bump up the pipe runs to 2.5" or 3" to reduce friction loss.
    Just to add a little to the mix, I'm also considering adding:
    • Chemical automation
    • Solar heating, roof roughly 10 ft above grade.


    BTW, the pump is 3HP VS; shooting for efficiency overall (LMK if I'm materially defeating this by adding the long runs)


    Hope I've provided all needed info... Thanks for your thoughts!
    Owner in Phoenix 16.5'X37', 27,000 gal pool; rennovation summer/fall 2015 to remove in ground sytem, resurfaced w/pebble sheen cool blue and update all equipment: Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo VS pump; Pentair 160332 Clean & Clear Plus 520 sf cartridge filter; Pentair Auto Fill; Pentair Intellichem, Pentair EasyTouch automation (including SWCG); ThePoolCleaner (suction side).

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Larger piping will certainly reduced the head loss from adding and additional 100 feet of length to your system. If the solar is located between the old location and the new that would be beneficial.

    I don't have much to add but perhaps you'll get some more feedback after this post.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    PM Mas985 and maybe he'll take a look at it and tell you what would be best.

    A 200' run (100' each way) is pretty long even for that pump. It'll probably work, but you'll definitely have some head issues.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Thanks Joel. Actually the potential solar would be at the equipment so also 100' away...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks Dave... I'll introduce myself to Mas985 and see what he thinks.
    Owner in Phoenix 16.5'X37', 27,000 gal pool; rennovation summer/fall 2015 to remove in ground sytem, resurfaced w/pebble sheen cool blue and update all equipment: Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo VS pump; Pentair 160332 Clean & Clear Plus 520 sf cartridge filter; Pentair Auto Fill; Pentair Intellichem, Pentair EasyTouch automation (including SWCG); ThePoolCleaner (suction side).

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Quote Originally Posted by kpischel View Post
    BTW, the pump is 3HP VS; shooting for efficiency overall (LMK if I'm materially defeating this by adding the long runs)
    Then 2.5" is must and you might go 3" if you have lot bends but 3" might be a good choice for the suction side anyway. Is it a straight shot?

    The bottom line is the bigger the pipe, the lower the RPM you will be able to use on the pump but it will still be higher than it is today.

    Also, what is the minimum RPM than you can effectively run the cleaner?

    What is the flow rate requirement for the water feature?

    Any particular reason you want to go with a vacuum rather than a pressure side cleaner?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Mark, thanks for your comments!

    So I'm truly a newbie at this. The pool is currently empty as within a week of owning this property the electrical circuit to the pool failed, the pool turned green within days (I live within the Phoenix area)... Since it needs resurfacing anyway I simply drained the pool.

    Is the run from the present equipment straight... relatively. and could be made absolutely straight with new trenching (I'm told I should not stack the runs in a trench, but rather lay them flat).

    Prior owner said kreepy krauly worked really well so I bought the equivalent... not married to it... still in its box so could be returned... This is true for the pump and filter as well. Point to your question above, I have no idea about the RPM requirements and assume that is driven by the pipe run, size, etc.

    So far as the water feature... again I wish I could be more helpful... just concept at this point... but thinking just a couple of spills at the deep end (diving pool), perhaps 2-3 feet above the water line.

    Point of moving the equipment is that looking out a wall of windows one sees the pool and the focal point gets pulled to the equipment pad... so I was trying to get it "out of the picture". An alternative is to move it roughly 10-15 feet back and to the left, down grade two feet or so... maybe that is the best choice. Yard is pretty torn-up and plan to cover the cool deck so trenching and cutting the old cool deck is very viable at this point. And maybe bonding the pool too since it may not be and I'll have access to rebar...
    Attachment 40052

    The pool refinisher is suggesting I add three returns in addition to the in-floor system (likely being replaced with A&A venturi heads) as well as a jandy levolor auto fill system. Again, thanks for your thoughts. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
    Owner in Phoenix 16.5'X37', 27,000 gal pool; rennovation summer/fall 2015 to remove in ground sytem, resurfaced w/pebble sheen cool blue and update all equipment: Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo VS pump; Pentair 160332 Clean & Clear Plus 520 sf cartridge filter; Pentair Auto Fill; Pentair Intellichem, Pentair EasyTouch automation (including SWCG); ThePoolCleaner (suction side).

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Moving the equipment a shorter distance then therefore not adding 100' to each side of your system would certainly be preferred. You could look into an unobtrusive enclosure that would blend into the landscape to go around the equipment as well, as long as it still allowed adequate access.

    As far as cleaners, I only have direct experience with robots. I would think with a VS pump you could get a pressure side cleaner that would not need a separate booster pump that would work quite well, such as a Polaris 360 or ThePoolCleaner. If you're going to be adding returns, you could easily make one of those addition a dedicated line for the pressure side cleaner.

    How many returns and skimmers do you currently have?
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain
    You could look into an unobtrusive enclosure that would blend into the landscape to go around the equipment as well, as long as it still allowed adequate access.
    That is probably what I would do and a lot easier than moving equipment. A simple fence can usually be enough.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    One skimmer tied to the main drain... the only return currently is from the in-floor cleaning system. BTW at least one pool guy has suggested eliminating the in-floor system altogether... thoughts? Suppose I could add an add'l skimmer...
    Owner in Phoenix 16.5'X37', 27,000 gal pool; rennovation summer/fall 2015 to remove in ground sytem, resurfaced w/pebble sheen cool blue and update all equipment: Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo VS pump; Pentair 160332 Clean & Clear Plus 520 sf cartridge filter; Pentair Auto Fill; Pentair Intellichem, Pentair EasyTouch automation (including SWCG); ThePoolCleaner (suction side).

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Quote Originally Posted by kpischel View Post
    BTW at least one pool guy has suggested eliminating the in-floor system altogether... thoughts?
    That would be my choice. An in-floor will force you to run at higher RPM then you would normally need to without it. However, you could convert the heads to just plane returns and use them for solar returns.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Mark I'm reading between the lines... Pls correct me if I've gone astray. 100' is a lot of extra work... for the pump and the project. One goal is energy efficiency... which I think you're eluding to by suggesting eliminating the in-floor system. I assume also that the suction side cleaners are more work for the pump than the pressure side cleaners... one reason I assume you suggested suction line being larger than the pressure side.

    Since I'm in a position to add/remove pretty much whatever I want (since the deck will be covered with pavers and the yard is starting from scratch), how might you configure this thing to be energy efficient while trying to move it the 100'... and alternatively, if you kind of think the 100' is just too much to handle from an efficiency perspective, what might you do differently? Regular returns (how many) in lieu of in-floor (would you convert some in-floor to returns; would these interfere with the cleaner?); pressure side cleaner (recommendation?); I assume the clean & clear 520 sf filter helps efficiency. Resurfacing guys recommending dual main drains (PDR).
    Owner in Phoenix 16.5'X37', 27,000 gal pool; rennovation summer/fall 2015 to remove in ground sytem, resurfaced w/pebble sheen cool blue and update all equipment: Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo VS pump; Pentair 160332 Clean & Clear Plus 520 sf cartridge filter; Pentair Auto Fill; Pentair Intellichem, Pentair EasyTouch automation (including SWCG); ThePoolCleaner (suction side).

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    You have successfully read between all the lines.

    if you kind of think the 100' is just too much to handle from an efficiency perspective, what might you do differently?
    Not too much to handle from an efficiency standpoint, just less efficiency. Again, if I was in the same situation, I would just hid the equipment behind a fence or shed.

    Also, if you don't already have a dual MDs, I would just skip it. You don't really need MDs anyway especially with all the floor inlets. The in-floor also has it's own MD, correct? If you ditch the in-floor you can just use that instead.

    I like ThePoolCleaner
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Mark, thanks for your thoughts... appreciate the feedback, prefer not to do it one way only to have to change it later.

    Currently there is a main drain, I think unrelated to the in-floor jets (11). No other returns. A single skimmer tied to the main drain.
    Resurfacing co suggested:

    • 2nd main drain (@~400); you addressed that.
    • 3 add'l returns; you mentioned converting some in-floor to returns (I assume your preference would be to skip updating the infloor which will cost ~2K anyway)
    • add an auto fill (Jandy Levolor).


    Would it be beneficial to add an add'l skimmer? The space should be pretty clean based on planned planting in the pool area so it would really be just for better circulation. And I'll read up on pressure side cleaners and how they get connected; assume I won't need a booster pump...

    Based on your comments and those of others I'll skip the 100' move.
    Owner in Phoenix 16.5'X37', 27,000 gal pool; rennovation summer/fall 2015 to remove in ground sytem, resurfaced w/pebble sheen cool blue and update all equipment: Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo VS pump; Pentair 160332 Clean & Clear Plus 520 sf cartridge filter; Pentair Auto Fill; Pentair Intellichem, Pentair EasyTouch automation (including SWCG); ThePoolCleaner (suction side).

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Currently there is a main drain, I think unrelated to the in-floor jets (11)
    That would be very odd because all in-floor systems that I have seen have a large collection drain where all the debris gets pushed to from the in-floor jets. A standard MD would not be able to handle that much debris.


    Would it be beneficial to add an add'l skimmer?
    Not unless your current skimmer is in the wrong location (i.e. not down wind).
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    And on the autofill: In your location with dry, hot air it might be convenient to have an autofill but sometimes it can mask a leak in your pool until you get a monstrous water bill. Personal/luxury choice but be vigilant about knowing that it could be covering up a pool leak problem.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    And on the autofill: In your location with dry, hot air it might be convenient to have an autofill but sometimes it can mask a leak in your pool until you get a monstrous water bill. Personal/luxury choice but be vigilant about knowing that it could be covering up a pool leak problem.
    Maybe simply turn off the waterfill periodically to ensure a leak isn't going on...
    Owner in Phoenix 16.5'X37', 27,000 gal pool; rennovation summer/fall 2015 to remove in ground sytem, resurfaced w/pebble sheen cool blue and update all equipment: Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo VS pump; Pentair 160332 Clean & Clear Plus 520 sf cartridge filter; Pentair Auto Fill; Pentair Intellichem, Pentair EasyTouch automation (including SWCG); ThePoolCleaner (suction side).

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    That would be very odd because all in-floor systems that I have seen have a large collection drain where all the debris gets pushed to from the in-floor jets. A standard MD would not be able to handle that much debris.
    I really couldn't say one way or another... This is a pic of the drain which appears to be connected to 2" pipe. The drain overall is around 6" across.
    20150717_115925.jpg
    Owner in Phoenix 16.5'X37', 27,000 gal pool; rennovation summer/fall 2015 to remove in ground sytem, resurfaced w/pebble sheen cool blue and update all equipment: Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo VS pump; Pentair 160332 Clean & Clear Plus 520 sf cartridge filter; Pentair Auto Fill; Pentair Intellichem, Pentair EasyTouch automation (including SWCG); ThePoolCleaner (suction side).

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    What happens when the leaves get there? Doesn't seem like you in-floor would work very well. But maybe being in AZ, you don't get many leaves so it isn't an issue.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    And it actually was "running" or maybe limping for just a couple of days since I purchased the property so I really don't know how effective it was. I do know they ran parallel with the in-floor system a kreepy krauly... so maybe it didn't work particularly well... You think I'm better off skipping the in-floor system? I do hear a lot of maintenance issues, replacing heads, etc...
    Owner in Phoenix 16.5'X37', 27,000 gal pool; rennovation summer/fall 2015 to remove in ground sytem, resurfaced w/pebble sheen cool blue and update all equipment: Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo VS pump; Pentair 160332 Clean & Clear Plus 520 sf cartridge filter; Pentair Auto Fill; Pentair Intellichem, Pentair EasyTouch automation (including SWCG); ThePoolCleaner (suction side).

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pool renovation... moving the equipment pad to unobtrusive location

    It doesn't sound like it was designed properly so yes, I would just covert the returns to normal returns if you can.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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