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Thread: Lost my sparkle..

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    Lost my sparkle..

    I have been fighting my pool for awhile now. Last year I ran two cups of DE in the filter with no problem (I could go 6-8 weeks between backwashes) This year has been a puzzle. My pool is off and I have read a 100 threads on how to fix it.

    Over the winter I had new sand put in and all my equiptment checked and anything I needed replaced was done so since the former homeowner wasn't good about maintaining equiptment. Everything is working great. My gauge was new last year (one Dave sells) and works.

    If I run DE in my filter I have to backwash every 12-36 hours depending on how much I put in. I have adjusted the amounts from a quarter of a cup up to two cups trying to find the sweet spot.

    I have a nice haze in the pool at night. It is off big time. It doesn't matter if anyone swims in the evening or not. I still have this haze. Two weeks ago I got sick of back washing all the time so I stopped the DE and it has gotten worse and last week I noticed my sparkle was gone.

    Over the last couple of months I have brushed and vacuumed until my arms are falling off. I have taken a toothbrush in and scrubbed every nook and cranny more times than I can count. I have passed the OCLT multiple times. I am losing around 2 ppm of chlorine a day. Yesterday I brought the CL up to 15 at 8 am and went to work and last night at 7 pm it was down to 8. I brought it back up to 16 at 9 pm and at 5:30 his morning it was still at 16. I get full sun from around 9 am until sundown it has been in the 90's here for the most part for the last month. I keep upping the filter from 7 hours a day (broken up in two runs) to 24 right now. The pool was clear up until Monday then I noticed it was a little cloudy. I could still see the screw heads in the main drain (8.5 depth) but the pool is just off and I cannot figure it out. To the average person it looks awesome but there is something I am missing.

    Here are my numbers from Thursday:

    CL 7
    CC 0 I never have any
    PH 7.4
    TA 60
    CH 100
    CYA 40

    The CL has never gone below 4 since bringing my CYA up to 40. Any suggestions? I really miss my sparkle
    16x32 IG rectangular 21,800k new vinyl liner 2014, Triton II TR 50 sand Filter, Pentair 3/4 hsp whisperflow pump, 3 returns, TF100 test kit w/speedstir. Maytronics s 300i robot.

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    PAGirl's Avatar
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Have you ever deep cleaned the sand? Have you inspected the insides of the filter?
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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Normally, whenever our water starts to get hazy, we think a SLAM may be in order. And for you it still may be. However you and I gave a similar challenge - horribly intense sun/heat on our pool ALL day. As such, I have been experimenting with finding just the right balance of CYA and FC to maintain throughout the day. The fact that you lose no FC overnight at all would seem to indicate your FC is getting burned-off by the sun. If you had any organics in the pool you would lose FC at night. I'm currently at a CYA of 50 for my pool and losing anywhere from 4-6 ppm per day - still too much for my liking. I did an OLCT last night and it passed it as well. My CC was also less than .5 with crystal clear water. So this morning I added a little more stabilizer to bring my CYA up to 60. I know I don't want to go too high with my CYA in case I ever have to SLAM, but at the same time my pool is clear, passing the CC and OCLT tests, but the sun is eating my FC.

    You may want to consider raising your CYA up by 10 ppm and see how well your FC holds-off after that. As others will note, there may be a filtration issue to consider, but I have a cartridge filter so I can't help you with that one. Best of luck!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    There's stuff in the water that you need to filter out. It's just that simple. If you can clog up the filter in 12-36 hours, it's straining something out. I'm wondering if maybe the sand you replaced wasn't the right stuff. That's the only thing that's changed since last year when you had no problems, right? It filters well with DE - almost too well - but won't filter without it.

    You passed the OCLT, so it's not algae. As Sherlock Holmes says, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." You don;t need to read through this whole thread, but start where I linked. Play Sand stalled this swamp clearing by a couple weeks.Helping a friend: This should be a good one - Page 6
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    It's strange that you could run DE last year & can't since changing the sand. Who changed the sand & do you know what type they used?
    Your test numbers look great. Maybe bring up the TA a little?
    Are you testing the chlorine level in the evening before adding more? You need to make sure its not falling below the minimum.
    Sounds like you are fanatical (that's a good thing, LOL) about the water sparkling, have you considered a cartridge or DE filter?
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    My pool company changed the sand and fixed all the broken laterals. I am only losing 2 ppm on average and day so I am a little hesitant to raise my CYA. Yesterday I just brought it up to see if there was anything I was missing.
    16x32 IG rectangular 21,800k new vinyl liner 2014, Triton II TR 50 sand Filter, Pentair 3/4 hsp whisperflow pump, 3 returns, TF100 test kit w/speedstir. Maytronics s 300i robot.

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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Oh okay, I may have mis-read your statement:
    Yesterday I brought the CL up to 15 at 8 am and went to work and last night at 7 pm it was down to 8.
    But if you're only losing 2 ppm per day, then I agree, don't mess with CYA. OCLT and CC are great as well. As Richard noted, your area of concern may very well be filter related.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    There's stuff in the water that you need to filter out. It's just that simple. If you can clog up the filter in 12-36 hours, it's straining something out. I'm wondering if maybe the sand you replaced wasn't the right stuff. That's the only thing that's changed since last year when you had no problems, right? It filters well with DE - almost too well - but won't filter without it.

    You passed the OCLT, so it's not algae. As Sherlock Holmes says, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." You don;t need to read through this whole thread, but start where I linked. Play Sand stalled this swamp clearing by a couple weeks.Helping a friend: This should be a good one - Page 6
    I have the same thought about getting ahead of it but I just never seem to be able to. I am truly stumped on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1162 View Post
    It's strange that you could run DE last year & can't since changing the sand. Who changed the sand & do you know what type they used?
    Your test numbers look great. Maybe bring up the TA a little?
    Are you testing the chlorine level in the evening before adding more? You need to make sure its not falling below the minimum.
    Sounds like you are fanatical (that's a good thing, LOL) about the water sparkling, have you considered a cartridge or DE filter?
    I test around 6:30 pm and chlorinate around 8 when the sun is almost down so it can work all night and the swimmers are pretty much done for the day. Yes, my family thinks I am obsessed! They say I can't get in without a scrub brush in my hand.

    I have thought about switching filters but my hubby would veto that.
    16x32 IG rectangular 21,800k new vinyl liner 2014, Triton II TR 50 sand Filter, Pentair 3/4 hsp whisperflow pump, 3 returns, TF100 test kit w/speedstir. Maytronics s 300i robot.

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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissykr View Post
    I am losing around 2 ppm of chlorine a day. Yesterday I brought the CL up to 15 at 8 am and went to work and last night at 7 pm it was down to 8.
    These two sentences seem to contradict each other.
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1162 View Post
    These two sentences seem to contradict each other.
    I average around 2 ppm a day loss. I bring it up to 7 each night and I am at 5 pretty much 24 hrs later. Yesterday I brought it up to 15 because every thread I read pretty much said it is a chemistry issue with cloudiness/haze so I wanted to see if I had something organic. The extra loss yesterday was to sun I am assuming since my CYA is 40. If I am missing something I am all ears. I really want to figure this out.

    I added a cup of DE this morning and changed to a brand new skimmer sock. I change them twice a day morning and evening so I run them through the washer and reuse until they fall apart.
    16x32 IG rectangular 21,800k new vinyl liner 2014, Triton II TR 50 sand Filter, Pentair 3/4 hsp whisperflow pump, 3 returns, TF100 test kit w/speedstir. Maytronics s 300i robot.

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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    On a side note...

    When I backwash my discharge has never been brown. It is always milky colored I have never seen any hint of brown. Over the years I have seen my sister backwash her pool many times and her discharge is always dark brown. She uses pool store methods. Does this make a difference?
    16x32 IG rectangular 21,800k new vinyl liner 2014, Triton II TR 50 sand Filter, Pentair 3/4 hsp whisperflow pump, 3 returns, TF100 test kit w/speedstir. Maytronics s 300i robot.

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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    I average around 2 ppm a day loss. I bring it up to 7 each night and I am at 5 pretty much 24 hrs later. Yesterday I brought it up to 15 because every thread I read pretty much said it is a chemistry issue with cloudiness/haze so I wanted to see if I had something organic. The extra loss yesterday was to sun I am assuming since my CYA is 40.
    Well, just in case it's not a filtration issue, and based on your reply above, perhaps continue to keep a very close eye on your FC loss. Being in the same climate regions as you, I am impressed you only lose 2 ppm of FC in 24 hours at a CYA of 40. I'm still trying to get dialed-in that good, and I'm at a higher CYA than you. If your FC is at 7 at night, and you are fortunate enough to never dip below your target of 5 during the day, perhaps your water is still struggling with the sun/heat? Many pool owners in hot regions will bump their FC slightly above their target (even by just 1-3 ppm) to have that extra reassurance. Just a thought.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    From your description, it sounds as if you have a filtration issue. How often are you running your pump? What is your current psi? What is the psi when you backwash? When was the last time you backwashed.

    When did you change sand and do you know why the laterals were broken?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    Well, just in case it's not a filtration issue, and based on your reply above, perhaps continue to keep a very close eye on your FC loss. Being in the same climate regions as you, I am impressed you only lose 2 ppm of FC in 24 hours at a CYA of 40. I'm still trying to get dialed-in that good, and I'm at a higher CYA than you. If your FC is at 7 at night, and you are fortunate enough to never dip below your target of 5 during the day, perhaps your water is still struggling with the sun/heat? Many pool owners in hot regions will bump their FC slightly above their target (even by just 1-3 ppm) to have that extra reassurance. Just a thought.
    Ok I will play around with my CYA. Water is cheap here so if I have to dump some I am more than willing to. I added a cup of DE this morning so I am sure I will have to backwash today at some point. Then I will add some stabilizer and bump it up a bit.

    The pool is stable other than this haze issue I have not added much at all this year so I am willing to try something different.
    16x32 IG rectangular 21,800k new vinyl liner 2014, Triton II TR 50 sand Filter, Pentair 3/4 hsp whisperflow pump, 3 returns, TF100 test kit w/speedstir. Maytronics s 300i robot.

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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    From your description, it sounds as if you have a filtration issue. How often are you running your pump? What is your current psi? What is the psi when you backwash? When was the last time you backwashed.

    When did you change sand and do you know why the laterals were broken?
    I was running the pump from 7-9 am and 3-9 pm originally and have been upping this until now it is running 24/7 for the last two days.

    I changed the sand because I did not know the history of my pool. I bought my house last year 8/1 and I wanted a deep clean on the sand but they don't do that. They only change the sand as a winter special. They found two broken laterals.

    They also said the multiport needed some things and they changed springs, and a new gasket and I have no idea what else After that the multiport failed and I started losing a lot of water fast. They tinkered with it a couple of times and it kept happening and finally they just put a new one on at their cost.

    My clean pressure is 15 and I backwash at 18.5 or 19. The lines were blown up at closing so I know they are clear and I get a small amount of debris in the pool but nothing major. The biggest leaves are from ferns around the yard.

    Last backwash was last night. I backwash for 2-3 minutes, rinse, repeat.

    I wanted to add..the equipment works great. I have good pressure and a nice circular flow around the pool much better than last year. The pressure last year was 11 all day long after back wash This year since the new multiport went in it is now 15 after a backwash. You can feel the water moving around you when your in the pool. I get in my tube and ride the pool around like a lazy river the flow is that good.
    16x32 IG rectangular 21,800k new vinyl liner 2014, Triton II TR 50 sand Filter, Pentair 3/4 hsp whisperflow pump, 3 returns, TF100 test kit w/speedstir. Maytronics s 300i robot.

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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Have you tried Adding DE to your Sand Filter? Or maybe it is time for a Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Three weeks ago. I had beautiful sparkle..
    image.jpg

    Today there is no sparkle. There was a breeze and the water was moving just like the first photo.

    image.jpg
    16x32 IG rectangular 21,800k new vinyl liner 2014, Triton II TR 50 sand Filter, Pentair 3/4 hsp whisperflow pump, 3 returns, TF100 test kit w/speedstir. Maytronics s 300i robot.

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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    I have a cartridge filter and use some In The Swim Super Clarifier every once in a while. It does make a difference in our pool to clump the finer particles together to filter.
    Inground 22k gallon gunite 15x31 main pool, 15x7 wading pool/sunning deck, hot tub/with overflow (9' octagon with limestone top) & slide NSWG, Aqua Blue Pebble Sheen
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Pools typically get dull because....

    1. Inadequate chlorine - that is not you

    2. Inadequate filtration - That is not you, either

    Your pool looks very clean to me but that is from a pic....I am not there to see it in person.

    There is nothing I can see in your management of your pool that i would change. Many people report increased sparkle by adding borates. I have never done that so can't comment but you can find lots of info here on the site by searching.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Lost my sparkle..

    Okay will keep filtering with DE and see if I can get ahead. I have thought of adding borates many times. I am just cheap and didn't want the expense.


    The pool is clean, my kids are spoiled. My sister has a fancy custom pool and my kids loved swimming in her pool. She is a pool store gal and my kids won't swim in it anymore. They said the water feels gross and slimy lol.
    16x32 IG rectangular 21,800k new vinyl liner 2014, Triton II TR 50 sand Filter, Pentair 3/4 hsp whisperflow pump, 3 returns, TF100 test kit w/speedstir. Maytronics s 300i robot.

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