Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: robertscalchi

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Bloomingdale
    Posts
    19

    robertscalchi

    i have a hayward xstream cartridge filter cc1500 1.5 hp with pleatco fiter 18ft round above 7200 gal. Next to woods(decent amount of debris and bugs) and have the same issue with sediment on floor of pool even after vacuuming to waste and cleaning filter. My filter moves water violently its so powerful. I ,have experimented with throttling both the intake and return valve and inducing slower longer cleaning cycles with unchanged results. Water is clear but ever so slightly hazy. It hasnt had that crystal pollished look since i last flocked it in early May. I skimmer filter also with skimmer sock and panty hose combined to trap and rinse finer particles before it hits the cartridge. Usually wind up with a gray or bluish film on the sock depending on if i use clairifyer when i rinse it on a daily basis and almost always wind up with sediment on pool floor on daily basis just after vacuuming. I think the grayish residue is dead algae. Looking for information/ techniques to increase efficiency of cartridge filter to where water is crystal clear and skimmer sock does not have residue build up and sediment on floor without having to use flocculant. I thought i saw an actual filter sock somewhere online a few years ago that actually goes over your filter as a filter aid. Also has anyone here ever tried experimenting with different fabrics/media to make a cartridge filter filter down to 2 micron or smaller. Any info is appreciated

  2. Back To Top    #2


    TFP Guide

    domct203's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,373

    Re: robertscalchi

    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    If your water is hazy you could have an algae issue, and that could be what is accumulating on the bottom of the pool.

    A good vacuum to waste should remove most of it.

    What you have not mentioned is your water chemistry and how you sanitize your pool.

    Can you please post a complete set of recent test results, including FC, CC, CYA, pH, TA & CH?

    Also tell us how you have been maintaining your Free Chlorine level (bleach/liquid chlorine, pucks, granular, etc).

    When my pool "didn't look as polished" I performed an OCLT to discover that I had some kind of organics consuming my chlorine and needed to perform a SLAM to correct this.

    After the SLAM my water has remained clear as glass, same filter, same schedule, etc.

    A cloudy pool is not always a filter issue, so a complete set of test results is needed to help us understand your pool.

    Also, please put your pool's details into your signature (see mine for an example). It will help stop the barrage of questions you'll be asked LOL.

    Pool care can be specific to your location, and Bloomingdale could be in New Jersey, Illinois, or Georgia. Please add your state to your profile as well.

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    N Tonawanda, NY
    Posts
    469

    Re: robertscalchi

    You can try adding small amounts of DE (must be pool DE not gardening) to the filter. I'd try adding a cup at a time until you see a small rise in the filter pressure.

    If you purchase one of the recommended test kits & follow the advice here you will have sparkling clear water without adding anything to the filter.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...its-comparison
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: robertscalchi

    Welcome back to TFP! Or have you just been lurking?

    It is better to use synthetic DE if you want to add DE to a cartridge filter. But, usually it is not needed or recommended.

    A full set of test results will help us determine if there is a minor chemistry problem. My pool likes slightly lower PH better, maybe some borax will help, maybe a slight bump in FC or CYA. Hazy or slightly cloudy water is usually not a filter issue. I live in the woods too and we get plenty of woods stuff in our pool.

    Also, please add your pool info to your signature as shown here, Pool School - Getting Started
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: robertscalchi

    Quote Originally Posted by domct203 View Post
    Also, please put your pool's details into your signature (see mine for an example). It will help stop the barrage of questions you'll be asked LOL.

    Pool care can be specific to your location, and Bloomingdale could be in New Jersey, Illinois, or Georgia. Please add your state to your profile as well.

    Dom
    LOL, that is great advice Dom, except your post doesn't have a sig! maybe the show sig box got unchecked?

    And just fyi, everyone is from TX, didn't you see the survey???
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  6. Back To Top    #6


    TFP Guide

    domct203's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,373

    Re: robertscalchi

    Ha ha, yup it was unchecked all right.

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Bloomingdale
    Posts
    19

    Re: robertscalchi

    Ok lol i figured i would get a request for chem levels. I would like for everyone to bear in mind with experience. The difference between a gray whitish residue which collects in skimmer sock or filter is dead algae. sediment which is differently granular in substance. and i have verified this by swimming on the floor while present before vacuumming should be getting picked up by filter and not be getting redistributed by it the longer i run the pump for 48 hr cleaning cycles. I suspected an algae outbreak in progress after last week to this week when my fc went from 5-10 ppm to 1-3 ppm with 2 trichlor pucks diminished in the pool over the week. And the skimmer sock had gray residue buildup. So i shocked 1lb calcium hypochlorite 72 hrs ran the filter. Aerated water to bring ph from 7.2 to 7.5 added pool magic 1 tri chlor puck and baking soda to bring ta from 70 to 90 ppm. Fc is holding steadily at 5-10 ppm over 48 hrs. Also a touch of stabilizer to bring cya up and algaecide. Unable to measure cya accurately at this time ran out of reagent. Was at 40 ppm 48 hrs ago. Now the water is clearer but still have issue with sediment blow by the longer i run the filter. Current stats are water temp 74 deg. fc: above 5-10 ppm ph:7.5. Ta: 90 ch was 350 now ch: 500 from shock. Ph ususally runs at 7.2 steady unless i aerate to 7.5 so everything is in range and water is clearer. Ch is s little high from shock. Cya i still need accurate values. I wont add borax unless ph falls below 7.2 which it holds unless i aerate to 7.5. Again t.y for the help. I am just looking for info for ways to make cartridge filtration more effective in capturing sediment without having to add de floc or vac to waste everytime. The filter is a pleatco which is well maintained and 3 years old. Rinsed 3 times a season with no holes and i even compressed air blow gun the filter dry every year at the beginning and end of the season so i inspect literally every pleat from top to bottom. I could swear i saw a actual filter sock or sleeve to go over the filter somewhere online 2 years ago but cant find it. Have a hayward xstream 1500cc 1.5 hp I will post pictures of sediment on floor after running filter for long periods.

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Bloomingdale
    Posts
    19

    Re: robertscalchi

    Oh sorry btw i live in bloomingdale nj. Thank you for the welcome . And yes i read more than i write (lurk) but i will contribute more to help others as this forum has taught me a lot in a short while

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: robertscalchi

    Nothing you can see will "get past" a Pleatco cartridge filter.

    Raise your FC up to 10 ppm and Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT) to see if you have organic material growing in your pool.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Bloomingdale
    Posts
    19

    Re: robertscalchi

    2015-07-12 17.14.48.jpg2015-07-12 14.52.49.jpg2015-07-12 14.52.54.jpgOk this will be my fourth attempt in putting up a post in 4 hrs due to my post almost being complete, and me like a dummy hitting the back button on my phone several times. Thank you for the advice everyone. However the FC/TC has been above 10ppm for over 72 hours after shocking and adding 1 tri chlor tab. So it is holding steady. I may have had the beginning phase of an algae out break which is nothing short of new for me during mid season. Pool is now clear. It always was clear with a slight haze to it a few days ago due to brief depletion of FC and the beginning of an algae breakout. I nabbed it in time. All chem level are now perfect with the exception of the CH which is high at 450-500 ppm due to the shock/calcium hypochlorite. FC: over 10 PPM holding for 72 hours. TA:80 PH 7.5 CYA: 40. The sediment however still remains a minor issue. Again distinguishing dead algae as gray/whitish residual matter which typically from my experience gets picked up from my skimmer sock. The sediment on the floor has always occurred mid season every year for me even when the filter was new out of the box 2 years ago. If i vac it to skimmer/filter, it reappears 2 hours later. if I vac it to waste, it still reappears. if I floc the pool and vac to waste in the past it usually hasn't come back until late season/ next season. Please bear in mind this occurs even after I have freshly rinsed the cartridge and skimmer sock. I know dead algae is accumulating in the skimmer sock until fully clear, but the sediment is something different. It could be dead algae and maybe i am mis-diagnosing. The wife and I both swam on the floor of the pool a few hours ago just to verify its consistency. It seems to be sedimenty slightly gritty but dissolved into the water once touched. I am convinced it is a filter issue and am looking for products/ideas/fabrications on how to make a filter cartridge more effective by placing a sleeve/fabric/sock or whatever over a cartridge filter if such an animal exists without having to use DE. I know other users on here have similar issues and I will scavenge the forums for clues. Again thanks for the advice. If anyone knows of any cartridge filter enhancements they can think of kindly please share

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: robertscalchi

    Not familiar with any sock or sleeve to put over a filter cartridge. Could it be pollen? Does any of your outdoor stuff, cars, etc have pollen on it?
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  12. Back To Top    #12


    TFP Guide

    domct203's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,373

    Re: robertscalchi

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertScalchi View Post
    Ok this will be my fourth attempt in putting up a post in 4 hrs due to my post almost being complete, and me like a dummy hitting the back button on my phone several times. Thank you for the advice everyone. However the FC/TC has been above 10ppm for over 72 hours after shocking and adding 1 tri chlor tab. So it is holding steady. I may have had the beginning phase of an algae out break which is nothing short of new for me during mid season. Pool is now clear. It always was clear with a slight haze to it a few days ago due to brief depletion of FC and the beginning of an algae breakout. I nabbed it in time. All chem level are now perfect with the exception of the CH which is high at 450-500 ppm due to the shock/calcium hypochlorite. FC: over 10 PPM holding for 72 hours. TA:80 PH 7.5 CYA: 40. The sediment however still remains a minor issue. Again distinguishing dead algae as gray/whitish residual matter which typically from my experience gets picked up from my skimmer sock. The sediment on the floor has always occurred mid season every year for me even when the filter was new out of the box 2 years ago. If i vac it to skimmer/filter, it reappears 2 hours later. if I vac it to waste, it still reappears. if I floc the pool and vac to waste in the past it usually hasn't come back until late season/ next season. Please bear in mind this occurs even after I have freshly rinsed the cartridge and skimmer sock. I know dead algae is accumulating in the skimmer sock until fully clear, but the sediment is something different. It could be dead algae and maybe i am mis-diagnosing. The wife and I both swam on the floor of the pool a few hours ago just to verify its consistency. It seems to be sedimenty slightly gritty but dissolved into the water once touched. I am convinced it is a filter issue and am looking for products/ideas/fabrications on how to make a filter cartridge more effective by placing a sleeve/fabric/sock or whatever over a cartridge filter if such an animal exists without having to use DE. I know other users on here have similar issues and I will scavenge the forums for clues. Again thanks for the advice. If anyone knows of any cartridge filter enhancements they can think of kindly please share
    Can you elaborate a bit on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertScalchi View Post
    ..... However the FC/TC has been above 10ppm for over 72 hours after shocking and adding 1 tri chlor tab. So it is holding steady
    Per your CYA 40ppm, Target FC Level is 5ppm and Shock level is 16ppm. Why are you holding "above 10ppm", and how much above 10ppm did it start at?

    *** Edit: ***
    I just saw pooldv's post to raise to 10ppm and perform an OCLT. How far above 10ppm did you start at?

    ***********

    If your FC & TC = 10ppm, then I am assuming that your CC=0.0ppm? If so, you've passed your first hurdle.


    Quote Originally Posted by RobertScalchi View Post
    ..... FC: over 10 PPM holding for 72 hours.
    Are you saying that the FC has been at 10ppm for 72 hours, and has not dropped at all, or is it that your FC test tops out at 10ppm?

    Have you performed an OCLT? This will tell for sure if you still have organics at play in your pool.

    Which test kit are you using?

    Sorry for all the questions, but like you, I had "not so polished" water and was questioning my filter. I tried DE and it got a little better.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...turation-Index

    But, thanks to some bird poop, (and in hindsight, when I brushed there were little "poofs" of something coming off the bottom) I did an OCLT to discover that I did have organics (algae/bacteria) in my pool, despite good levels.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...t-of-this-pool!

    After a SLAM, the water is glass clear, with no more "poofs" when I brush. My pool is under some trees, and thought that debris from the trees was on the bottom of my pool. Now I see the difference between "debris" and algae on the pool floor.

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Bloomingdale
    Posts
    19

    Re: robertscalchi

    My test kit is a 6 way test kit from hth. The fc measurement window tops out at 10ppm so i cannot precisely measure above. 10ppm fc. Sorry what is cc abreviated for again? Need to get a more comprehensive kit like taylor2006. I understand the SLAM procedure. But what is the OCLT? Test?

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: robertscalchi

    CC is combined chlorine. If it is above 0.5 ppm that is another indication of active organic matter in the pool.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  15. Back To Top    #15


    TFP Guide

    domct203's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,373

    Re: robertscalchi

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertScalchi View Post
    My test kit is a 6 way test kit from hth. The fc measurement window tops out at 10ppm so i cannot precisely measure above. 10ppm fc. Sorry what is cc abreviated for again? Need to get a more comprehensive kit like taylor2006. I understand the SLAM procedure. But what is the OCLT? Test?
    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    .......... Raise your FC up to 10 ppm and Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT) to see if you have organic material growing in your pool.
    I don't think your current test kit will be accurate enough for a proper OCLT.

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    728

    Re: robertscalchi

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertScalchi View Post
    My test kit is a 6 way test kit from hth. The fc measurement window tops out at 10ppm so i cannot precisely measure above. 10ppm fc. Sorry what is cc abreviated for again? Need to get a more comprehensive kit like taylor2006. I understand the SLAM procedure. But what is the OCLT? Test?
    The hth 6-way kit has the OTO test for chlorine, which only goes up to about 5 ppm. In fact, the comparator block on my old hth kit only goes up to 3 ppm (I just looked at it out of curiosity); maybe they've changed the reference color block to go up to 5... Online instructions for hth 6-way show chlorine measured in the 0-4 ppm range. So, your mention of measuring up to 10 ppm FC is confusing to me.

    Edited to add:
    Is it possible you are looking at the bromine numbers on the OTO comparator? Those are twice as high as the chlorine numbers (for the same color level), but they are only meaningful if you are running a bromine pool.
    Last edited by singingpond; 07-15-2015 at 02:43 AM. Reason: typo
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

  17. Back To Top    #17


    TFP Guide

    domct203's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,373

    Re: robertscalchi

    Does your kit look like this:



    If yes, you are reading the wrong scale as mentioned.

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    N Tonawanda, NY
    Posts
    469

    Re: robertscalchi

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertScalchi View Post
    I am just looking for info for ways to make cartridge filtration more effective in capturing sediment without having to add de floc or vac to waste everytime. The filter is a pleatco which is well maintained and 3 years old. Rinsed 3 times a season with no holes and i even compressed air blow gun the filter dry every year at the beginning and end of the season so i inspect literally every pleat from top to bottom. I could swear i saw a actual filter sock or sleeve to go over the filter somewhere online 2 years ago but cant find it. Have a hayward xstream 1500cc 1.5 hp I will post pictures of sediment on floor after running filter for long periods.
    You can check my math but it looks like a sock to fit over your cartridge would be less than 5 sq.ft in area. That's 1/30 of the area on the cartridge itself. So it seems even if someone did make such an item that filters down to a few microns it would clog up very fast.

    Why don't you want to try DE?
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: robertscalchi

    IF you are going to try DE with a cartridge filter then it is best to use synthetic DE? Although, it is not generally recommended.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    728

    Re: robertscalchi

    Sounds like there's a good chance your problem is with chemistry, not filtration.

    See this
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

    Your SLAM chlorine level with the reported CYA of 40 is 16, not a bit over 5 on your OTO comparator, which is probably what you have been doing. Moreover, you've been raising your CYA levels further with the recent use of trichlor, and with addition of the "touch of stabilizer" you mentioned in the first post. The fact that you report the chlorine holding at above the "5-10" level for an extended time is not very informative, since your OTO tester tops out at 5.

    You yourself thought you had the start of an algae outbreak, and nothing you've written suggests that you've yet addressed the algae problem with the systematic approach used on TFP - your measurement of CYA is at least a few days out of date, and your capability to measure SLAM levels of FC is non-existent. No measurements of CC (combined chlorine) have been reported.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •