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Thread: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

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    New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    First of all, a very enthusiastic HELLO to all of you wonderful folks at this website! I have been dealing with a water chemistry nightmare and finally after finding this website have decided to take control over my fears and frustrations and try my best to learn as much about maintaining my pool - MYSELF (with TFP as my co-pilot). I will try to be as brief as possible, but give the highlights (or more truthfully lowlights).

    I had a concrete SWG pool at my previous home (for about 7 years) complete with a pool management company that kept things in tip top shape. We moved to the coast of NC about a year ago and had a fiberglass pool installed. The construction was finished late in the swimming season and we had an issue with our sense and dispense system malfunctioning and dumping who knows how many gallons of muriatic acid into the pool. The pool contractor "handled this" - mostly by emptying and refilling the pool. We swam exactly once before having the pool closed in the fall. Mind you - we made an informed decision to have the pool installed late, knowing that we weren't going to get much if any use last year- this was due to building logistics, etc. Pool contractor maintained pool thru closing time.

    This spring the pool was opened and maintained by the pool contractor with me starting to "learn the ropes myself". The sense and dispense malfunctioned several more times, sending the PH down to 4.6. The first time the pool contractor "took care" of it. We had left the acid reservoir nearly empty for fear of another dump. After several weeks of monitoring PH with strips (to sanity check the PH indicator on the Sense and dispense), pool contractor convinced us to trust the equipment and add muriatic to the reservoir. My husband added 1 gallon to the reservoir and a few days later.....dump....ph was back below 5. I had been reading through information in this website during the last "issue". I decided to use borax to raise the PH. Using the pool calculator and guessing based on test strips, we got the PH back up.

    I just ordered the TF100 along with Borates test strip and salt test strips. Package arrived yesterday and we tested water earlier today with the following results:
    FC 3.5, CC .5, PH 8.0, TA 30, CH 375, CYA 0, borates 30, salt 5400

    As for the salt - the pool contractor checked it week before last and added salt. All the readings just listed were obtained from the new test kit. Since I'm new to this, I do have a few questions about my assumptions on a couple of the tests, namely in the CH whether pink is the same as red?? husband seems to think so - but I will poke around and see if I can find some clarification, but to the best of my ability following directions, these are the correct numbers for today.

    I also have no confidence in my pool's volume. Pool contractor said between 11,000 and 12,000 gallons. I read on these forums that someone with my same pool reported 8500 gallons. I have no way of measuring since my pool was filled by our well, and I have an irregular shape and have forgotten all college calculus! I do tend to believe that the 11,000 is too high, as I followed the pool calculator when figuring borax and added way less than was suggested and that seemed to do the trick initially with the PH.

    How should I proceed, ie what to tackle first? By the way, I locally only have access to Walmart, Lowe's and some local hardware stores for chemicals, etc. No pool supply place nearby. Of course I can order items online but would much prefer to head to Wally or Lowes for pool supply runs. I can also say that the sense and dispense will be removed and returned. In theory it sounds good, but after our experiences, I don't trust its operations or its readings.

    I am very happy that I finally just did what I should've done years ago....start learning this stuff myself! I read an old forum post on this website that said something along the lines of "any dim-witted monkey can learn to maintain a pool - it's that easy"..... Well, my husband would insert a joke about me insulting the poor monkey....

    Thank you again to the brilliant folks who started this website and developed the pool calculator and all of you wonderful, patient, knowledgeable folks who maintain this forum and help those monkeys like me who have tried to run and bury their heads in the sand when it comes to pool maintenance. I really do hope to become an expert of my own pool!

    Kelly
    IG - Leisure Pools Riviera 14'X30'X5'7" Fiberglass freeform (11,000 gal ??), Hayward Century 2 speed (1.0-.16 HP), SWG Hayward Turbo Cell T-Cell-9, Hayward Starclear Plus Cartridge Filter, Well water filled, Coastal NC with full sun 8 hr/day, Installed 8/2014

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    First welcome!

    As to the CH test, red = pink under certain conditions. You are looking for,the color shift and no more change. If it shifts colors keep adding one drop at a time and watch the color. It may change more. When you add a drop that causes no more change you are done and can ignore that last drop in the count.

    Following our methods you can generally get all your supplies at WalMart, Lowes or Home Depot.

    The CYA test is the hardest for most folks, so are you sure of the 0 reading? If so let's pick up some CYA at WalMart and use Pool Math to target 40.

    Now we are going to experiment. After the sun goes down I want you to take a 25ml chlorine test sample. Use Pool Math (assuming 10,000 gallons) to calculate how much bleach you need to add to raise the FC 2ppm. With the pump running add exactly that amount. Wait 30 minutes and test again. Was it close to 2ppm higher? Too high? Too low? This will give you a better handle on your volume. If you watch your chemical additions you can narrow down your volume this way. Just keep a log of what you add, how much you add and what it did to the water.

    So, CYA is first.

    The salt seem high, but you are using strips and the SWCG seems to be working if you haven't added chlorine manually.

    Let's get the pH adjusted down to the mid 7's using muratic acid manually. I would turn off the spence & dispense for now. I just don't like or trust them.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    HI! You have done so much good with your pool already----finding TFP, asking questions, having the best test kit!

    Get your bleach from Walmart. Get the great value that is 8.25%. Be careful as they are now selling a "cleaning" bleach that is 6% for the same $.

    Lowes and Home Depot's bleach tends to be older.

    Tim has you covered. Just listen to him and you will have full control of your pool!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    Hi Kelly,
    Welcome to TFP!

    No need to worry. We'll help you out. One thing that you are going to be surprised about, is how easy and expensive it is to take care of your pool yourself. You've taken the first step and got yourself an excellent test kit. Very glad to hear that.

    Tim has you fixed up on how to get a reasonable volume of your pool and other things.

    Regarding your salt,
    Really, the only thing that matters is that the SWG is happy. If your SWG is generating chlorine, then the salt is good.
    Dont worry about it too much unless its not generating chlorine.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    Thank you so much for the reply! After reading your instructions for the 25ml chlorine sample test, I didn't know if that meant different reagents, so I performed the 10ml test that I ran earlier today and the same test using a 25ml sample. Later I saw where the multiplier changed, not the reagents so your experiment played out as follows:
    Sundown (also after a heavy downpour) : 10 ml 5 drops X .5 = 2.5 FC / 25 ml 13 drops X .2 = 2.6 FC
    PoolMath assuming 10,000 gallons to raise FC from 2.5 to 4.5 called for 30 oz of 8.25% bleach from the 121 oz jug (this was the concentrated chlorox I had on hand)
    30 minutes after adding bleach with pump on high, test repeated:
    10 ml 11 drops X .5 = 5.5 FC / 25 ml 29 drops X .2 = 5.8 FC
    conclusion according to 10ml sample test raised FC 3ppm and 25 ml test raised FC 3.2ppm

    So if I did everything correctly, I see that FC was raised around 60% more than it should have been, so I can conclude that my level is less than 10,000 (which is the exact middle of the skimmer opening - where my OCD brain likes to see it). Further assumptions are beyond the scope of my brain this evening. Clearly, my CAPACITY is much greater but it would be nice to know a closer ballpark volume to plug into the calculator. Pools should have measure marks like a measuring cup!

    I have added CYA this evening, floating the load across 3 stockings around the pool, with the pump running. Does it matter if the pump is on low or high? I read where it can take up to a couple of days to dissolve the solids and not to clean the filter for 48 hours. How long before I should repeat the CYA test? I'm determined to NOT see that black dot! My assumption is that after my pool was refilled by my contractor after the initial muriatic overdose, he didn't properly restore the chemistry, so I think a CYA of zero from this mornings test was valid - repeated it a couple of times with my husband looking over my shoulder the whole time to point out any deviations from the test instructions.

    I seem to also remember reading that the CYA will lower PH a bit. When should I expect the PH to finish reacting to the CYA so that I can check that again and see if I need to add acid manually?

    Thank you so much for your assistance!
    Kelly
    IG - Leisure Pools Riviera 14'X30'X5'7" Fiberglass freeform (11,000 gal ??), Hayward Century 2 speed (1.0-.16 HP), SWG Hayward Turbo Cell T-Cell-9, Hayward Starclear Plus Cartridge Filter, Well water filled, Coastal NC with full sun 8 hr/day, Installed 8/2014

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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    Coastainc, I'll attempt to answer your questions, though I'm by no means an expert. The calculations part, I'll leave to the more knowledgeable people.

    Pump on low should be fine for the CYA. It can take a couple of days for it to dissolve; don't backwash for 48 hours. You might also notice your filter pressure go up a little bit until it dissolves. Don't repeat the CYA test for around a week; it will most likely be inaccurate before that amount of time. CYA will lower the pH a bit, but probably not enough to counter a pH of 8. However, before you start adjusting pH, it will probably be in your best interest to adjust TA up to around 70 or so with some baking soda. That will keep your pH from going into wild fluctuations.
    24 foot round, above ground vinyl.
    Sand filter, dual speed pump.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    It is best to some how get the socks to stay right in front of the return. It will go faster that way. You can also squeeze it as much and as often as you want.

    -testing CYA-wait a week before you test it BUT dose your FC as if the CYA is already at your goal amount.

    -backwashing-since you are floating the CYA in socks you can backwash whenever you need to. It is when the CYA is put in the skimmer so goes to the filter before the water that you should wait to backwahs.

    I will let Tim work on the other stuff.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    While,not totally conclusive, it appears your pool,is,well less than 10,000 gallons. It is not uncommon for pool capacity to be calculated as if the water was all the way to,the top. So, for now assume 8,000 gallons for chemical dosing and continue to keep a log and see if you can narrow it down. It will never be exact calculating it this way, but will be close enough.

    You need to get some muratic acid and get that pH down in the mid 7's. Don't wait or assume the CYA will get you there.

    Kim is correct, begin dosing your chlorine assuming you have reached your CYA goal. Begin adjustin the SWG % and run time to keep your pool at your target FC. But, don't be afraid to add a little bleach to,Brian it,up,quickly is you come up short.

    This is all a learning process. Take it slow and steady.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    You cannot do accurate dosing unless you have a good handle on the gallons in your pool. According to info on the web, your pool is 14,300 gallons. I would take that to the bank unless your measurements in your sig are incorrect.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    Hi Tim! I am back with some updates. So I added the CYA to target to 40 per your suggestion Saturday night, June 11. The next day I also raised TA to 70 per another's suggestion, by adding baking soda per pool math with an 8000 gallon volume number. I had my pump running for at least 48 hours straight, with my SWG on - whatever it was set on. I will list some values for Tues 7/14 PH 7.4, FC 18, CC 0, TA 70. I was a little shocked (no pun intended) to see my FC go up so much. I don't really totally understand ORP, but my system parameters were set by my installer, and after reading through my pool equipment manuals, the sense and dispense module display uses ORP range and PH range. I just turned off the system with a maintenance override and manually operated the pump from then on (have a call into pool installer to remove sense and dispense). I am frustrated that I don't have a simple SWG input like my prior pool ( not that I really understood it then, but I could follow instructions). So on Wednesday 7/15 PH 7.5, FC 16.5, CC 0, TA 70, Thurs 7/16 PH 7.5, FC 13, CC 0, TA 70 Salt via strip 3100, today Friday 7/17 PH 7.5, FC 10.5, CC 0, TA 60, CH 300 CYA between 40 and 50 (so I know I am supposed to wait a full week - but I thought I would try the test again....I am doing this inside under lights in my laundry room...not 100% sure when to say the dot is completely gone). So no one has been in the pool this week - didnt know if the relatively high FC was a problem with the questionable CYA level - so I have stayed out. Water is beautiful and crystal clear. I am perplexed as to why my salt reading has come down so low after being over 5000 last week. (my sensor still has it at 5000 - with strips contradiction that now) We have had a couple of inches of rain but no overflow or draining from the pool - although I did clean my filter cartridge day before yesterday since someone said I could if I didn't add CYA to the skimmer.

    I plan on running all tests tomorrow to hopefully get a true CYA since it will have been 1 week. Do you have any thoughts on falling salt level, and if I should turn by SWG back on? when? Is it ok to swim? Should I be gearing up to raise CYA even more? I have guests coming Sunday afternoon for a week visit.....my pool needs to be ready to receive!! smile!

    As always, thanks in advance for your help!
    Kelly
    IG - Leisure Pools Riviera 14'X30'X5'7" Fiberglass freeform (11,000 gal ??), Hayward Century 2 speed (1.0-.16 HP), SWG Hayward Turbo Cell T-Cell-9, Hayward Starclear Plus Cartridge Filter, Well water filled, Coastal NC with full sun 8 hr/day, Installed 8/2014

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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    Update with today's readings, officially 1 week after adding CYA
    Ph7.5, FC 7, CC 0, CH 275, TA 60, CYA 30 ...salt mystery continues took 2 readings with aquachek strips, last one was 7.3, or 4885 ppm - which I tend to believe. First test today was 3.2. Maybe I had some bad strips? Anyway, just ordered the Taylor salt test to be safe! So yesterday's post questions still remain about turning my swg back on under the sense and dispense module. Thanks!
    IG - Leisure Pools Riviera 14'X30'X5'7" Fiberglass freeform (11,000 gal ??), Hayward Century 2 speed (1.0-.16 HP), SWG Hayward Turbo Cell T-Cell-9, Hayward Starclear Plus Cartridge Filter, Well water filled, Coastal NC with full sun 8 hr/day, Installed 8/2014

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFP - asking for help in recovering from a Muriatic OD!

    I am not any good with salt Maybe start a new thread with something about salt in the title to get salt people's attention!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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