Really confused about what to do, please HELP

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sere81

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Apr 30, 2013
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I'll start this by saying I wished I had kept a log with my pool readings over the past 2 weeks and all the chemicals I put in, but I'll do my best to remember.

2 weeks ago we had a lot of rain over the course of a few days and at the same time my pump stopped working. So the pool sat uncirculated for about3-4 days. During that time it became a very cloudy green color that I assumed was algae starting to grow.

After I got my pool pump working again I started adding bleach to try to SLAM it back to normal. After several days of no improvement I noticed the PH and Alkalinity were very high.

I added 3 gallons of muriatic acid yesterday. It has since been 32 hours since I poured it in with no improvement.

looks like alkalinity is 150, and PH is 6.8 as of a couple minutes ago.

I will add some pictures so you all can see what it looks like

Thank you all for any help.

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3 gallons of MA? What strength?

Woha lets slow down.

I'm not the expert here but I have some suggestions.


First tell us about your pool size, and equipment -- look at my signature -- tell us basically that information.

Second go out and get us some test results. Most on here like the TF 100 because it gives clear results and provides all the info you need. it uses FAS DPD to test for chlorine -- reliable and fast. But give us some results and tell us how you got them. TF 100, pool store , strips.

So we want

Free Chlorine

Combined Chloramines

Total Alkalinity

Calcium Hardness

CYA

Ph

Once we have those we can help you.

For now I'd slow down on adding chemicals to your pool.

Gordon
 
Thank you all for the quick replies.

I came to the conclusion of 3 gal of muriatic acid from a youtube video who basically said that every .8qrts would lower my total alkalinity 10PPM per 10K gallons of water.

So I have,

24FT Round AGP @ 15K gallons. Waterway 1.5HP Pump with Sand filter.

Unfortunately I don't have a TF 100 test kit(I know I need one.), but the test strips I am using now are giving me the results as follows.

FC 0
CC 0
TA 150
CH 250
CYA 0
PH 6.8
 
swoopman said:
3 gallons of muriatic acid in 15,000 gallons is a lot. Your pH measurement of 6.8 is the low end of what can be measured, your actual pH is probably much lower. You need to add some washing soda now to get your pH back up. See pool math:
http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

Hopefully this reply will boost your thread so some more experienced people will see it and jump in to help.
Click to expand...

Yes, you're probably right about it being lower than 6.8. I didn't even think of that.

Not to be argumentative here, I just want to make sure I understand everything. But will raising my PH make my water more clear? It looked nearly identical to the pictures before I added the 3gal of MA and my PH at that time was 8.4+.
 
My advice would be:

1) Do not trust the test strips or the pool store tests.
2) Order a recommended test kit to get the most help from others and not have to make guesses.
3) Look in the Bleach prices 2015 thread to see if you have a store that has good prices on liquid chlorine/bleach.
4) Go pickup a cheap 3-way OTO drop test and a box or two of 20 Mule Team Borax at WalMart.
5) Get bleach while at Walmart or from somewhere with a better price per oz/chlorine.
6) Measure pH on OTO test kit and use Pool Math to determine how much Borax to add to increase pH to 7.2.
7) Test pH 60 minutes later, if <7.2 then repeat step 6.
8) Use pool math to determine how much liquid chlorine/bleach to add to target 8ppm TC (you'll only see TC on OTO test)
9) Test every hour and when TC on OTO is <=5ppm go to step 8.
10) Let filter run 24/7, check every few hours to ensure PSI is not more than 25% over the normal clean pressure (PSI right after a thorough backwash and rinse).
11) Wait patiently for a recommended test kit.


The purpose of a recommended test kit is so we can trust the numbers and not guess at things. You cannot SLAM a pool without having an accurate CYA test and cannot Maintain shock levels (the "M" in SLAM) if you cannot test FC that high. Only an FAS-DPD test kit can test FC at the shock levels you should be maintaining during a SLAM.
 

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pooldv said:
Ph has nothing to do with making your water clear. PH needs to be maintained between 7.2 and 7.8 at all times.

3 gallons of MA will lower PH in 15k gallons by 6.15, so if it started at 8.2 it is somewhere around 2.

Chlorine makes your water clear. With cloudy water you need to follow this process, Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
Click to expand...

I think we can't use PoolMath to come to this conclusion (i.e. pH of 2) - there's a note in the calculator that the results get increasingly inaccurate for large pH deviations. This is certainly a large deviation from the typical 7.2 - 7.8 range.

However, it's certainly safe to say the pool is now much too acidic. I think you (that is, the original poster) have to get your pH back into a reasonable range before dealing with algae and water clarity. For all I know, this acid level might actually be bad for algae, but that would be an inadvertent experiment. I would worry more that very low pH could be bad for pool materials and equipment.
 
I would get at least 4 boxes of borax (laundry section of most stores- I get mine at Menard's) Do it ASAP. Add a box to a bucket of water and mix thoroughly before adding to pool. Or slowly, very slowly, add it to your skimmer. Do one box and retest an hour later. Keep doing it until your pH rises above 6.8.
 
Yep, PH might be 3 instead of 2. But, the pool is also 13k gal and not 15k. Either way PH needs to be fixed pronto. I think PH of 2 or 3 would kill everything in the pool.
 
Note that borax and soda ash (the two remedies suggested to raise pH) will both raise TA at the same time. Borax has less of this effect than soda ash. I'm not sure how prices and availability compare.

It's kind of ironic that fixing the pH fiasco may raise TA numbers higher than they were before the MA was dumped into the pool in the first place.
 
Actually, the borates calculator in Pool Math says 384oz of 31.45% MA offsets the addition of 10.7 boxes of borax. You might need to buy up to 11 boxes, but if you find only a few in one store take it home and add it to skimmer and go get some more. Your pH should have increased some on it's own and you were a little high to start with so you may only need 8 or 9 boxes. Get an OTO comparator it should help you see how close you're getting to a reasonable pH level. I would start testing pH every 10 minutes after the first 5 boxes and every box until pH color starts to match the bottom color on an OTO 3-way test comparator. When it's close to the bottom color on the comparator start waiting 30 minutes between additions and start adding less.

If your MA was less than 20 Baume (31.45%), then you need less borax.
 
He didn't say what strength of MA he used. I know at the grocery store by me it's 14.5, at the pool store is the 31.45%. God forbid it be 31.5.

Just a few things that slipped though:
Cloudiness, esp after rain and no circulation, is the beginning of an algae outbreak. Rain dilutes the FC in your pool, even if slightly, and there seem to be quite a few people here the past two week who said their pool went crazy after heavy rains. rain should be pure water, not introducing a bunch of issues, but that's not what I've seen people here say the past few weeks. Anyway, you'll need to get the FC to the SLAM level for your CYA reading.

BUT, chlorine will temporarily raise pH, AND, the pH test will be inaccurate when the FC gets above 10. This may be why you thought you had crazy high pH to begin with, as you said you were doing a SLAM. As was stated, find yourself a 4-5 hour window as soon as possible, leave your pump running, and start adding borax or soda ash in cycles: add, mix with brush if needed and let circulate, try again. once it's low 7's you can get back to your SLAM. though, if you don't have a test kit with a reliable CYA test, you won't know what FC level you need to hold at to kill the algae. Blue but cloudy is closer to the finish line that green and cloudy at least.

- - - Updated - - -

sere81 said:
Thank you all for the quick replies.

I came to the conclusion of 3 gal of muriatic acid from a youtube video who basically said that every .8qrts would lower my total alkalinity 10PPM per 10K gallons of water.
Click to expand...

the basic premise is correct, not sure specifically on the math, but you (or the video) missed a distinction. You would use MA to bring down your TA in steps. Add acid to get to 7.2, then aerate the pool until the pH is back near 7.8. then add more acid to lower TA, aerate, etc. That process wasn't meant to be extrapolated out to lower the TA all at once.
 
Let's all slow down a bit and help this newbie.

1. Get your pH back up to around 7.4 or so using 20 Mule team Borax and PoolMath......do that now...not later but now.

2. Simultaneously, get chlorine in your pool. Use PoolMath to bring it to about 4 ppm.

3. You will need CYA to hold your chlorine better. Use PoolMath and put in enough to get to 30 ppm.

read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. You must obtain a basic understanding of the parameters you are adjusting.

That's it for now. Post back with questions.
 
Thank you all so much for the help so far.

All the numbers are basically unchanged as of 7-10 in the am.

After work I will go get a cheap drop tester until a proper tester arrives.

I will call the wife and see if she can get the borax and start adding so I don't have to wait till I get off work.

Thank you
 

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