Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 78

Thread: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    I'll start this by saying I wished I had kept a log with my pool readings over the past 2 weeks and all the chemicals I put in, but I'll do my best to remember.

    2 weeks ago we had a lot of rain over the course of a few days and at the same time my pump stopped working. So the pool sat uncirculated for about3-4 days. During that time it became a very cloudy green color that I assumed was algae starting to grow.

    After I got my pool pump working again I started adding bleach to try to SLAM it back to normal. After several days of no improvement I noticed the PH and Alkalinity were very high.

    I added 3 gallons of muriatic acid yesterday. It has since been 32 hours since I poured it in with no improvement.

    looks like alkalinity is 150, and PH is 6.8 as of a couple minutes ago.

    I will add some pictures so you all can see what it looks like

    Thank you all for any help.

    20150709_185436.jpg
    20150709_185441.jpg
    20150709_185420.jpg

  2. Back To Top    #2

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,084

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Let's start by saying that 3 gallons of muriatic acid is stunningly excessive. How did you decide that? How are you testing? Could you post all your current test results?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    3 gallons of MA? What strength?

    Woha lets slow down.

    I'm not the expert here but I have some suggestions.


    First tell us about your pool size, and equipment -- look at my signature -- tell us basically that information.

    Second go out and get us some test results. Most on here like the TF 100 because it gives clear results and provides all the info you need. it uses FAS DPD to test for chlorine -- reliable and fast. But give us some results and tell us how you got them. TF 100, pool store , strips.

    So we want

    Free Chlorine

    Combined Chloramines

    Total Alkalinity

    Calcium Hardness

    CYA

    Ph

    Once we have those we can help you.

    For now I'd slow down on adding chemicals to your pool.

    Gordon
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Thank you all for the quick replies.

    I came to the conclusion of 3 gal of muriatic acid from a youtube video who basically said that every .8qrts would lower my total alkalinity 10PPM per 10K gallons of water.

    So I have,

    24FT Round AGP @ 15K gallons. Waterway 1.5HP Pump with Sand filter.

    Unfortunately I don't have a TF 100 test kit(I know I need one.), but the test strips I am using now are giving me the results as follows.

    FC 0
    CC 0
    TA 150
    CH 250
    CYA 0
    PH 6.8

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,998

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Muriatic acid lowers PH, 3 gallons lowers it a LOT.

    Tell us about your pool and some test results as shown here, Pool School - Getting Started


    Here are some of my fave Pool School articles in case you missed any of them.
    TFPC for Beginners
    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry

    Here are the Recommended Levels for your pool.
    Here are the Recommended Pool Chemicals and how to add them.
    Use PoolMath to figure out how much to add.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  6. Back To Top    #6
    swoopman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    213

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    3 gallons of muriatic acid in 15,000 gallons is a lot. Your pH measurement of 6.8 is the low end of what can be measured, your actual pH is probably much lower. You need to add some washing soda now to get your pH back up. See pool math:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

    Hopefully this reply will boost your thread so some more experienced people will see it and jump in to help.
    TF-100 Test Kit
    22,000 gallon, 20x40 kidney-shape IG plaster pool built in 1986
    Nautilus NS-36 DE filter, Hayward Self Prime Super Pump 1HP
    Polaris Automatic Pool Cleaner, PB4-60 3/4 HP pump

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Quote Originally Posted by swoopman View Post
    3 gallons of muriatic acid in 15,000 gallons is a lot. Your pH measurement of 6.8 is the low end of what can be measured, your actual pH is probably much lower. You need to add some washing soda now to get your pH back up. See pool math:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

    Hopefully this reply will boost your thread so some more experienced people will see it and jump in to help.
    Yes, you're probably right about it being lower than 6.8. I didn't even think of that.

    Not to be argumentative here, I just want to make sure I understand everything. But will raising my PH make my water more clear? It looked nearly identical to the pictures before I added the 3gal of MA and my PH at that time was 8.4+.

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,998

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Ph has nothing to do with making your water clear. PH needs to be maintained between 7.2 and 7.8 at all times.

    3 gallons of MA will lower PH in 15k gallons by 6.15, so if it started at 8.2 it is somewhere around 2.

    Chlorine makes your water clear. With cloudy water you need to follow this process, Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  9. Back To Top    #9
    swoopman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    213

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Low pH will damage your pool and your equipment. Fix it first, now. Then work on fixing the cloudiness.
    TF-100 Test Kit
    22,000 gallon, 20x40 kidney-shape IG plaster pool built in 1986
    Nautilus NS-36 DE filter, Hayward Self Prime Super Pump 1HP
    Polaris Automatic Pool Cleaner, PB4-60 3/4 HP pump

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North OKC Area
    Posts
    298

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    My advice would be:

    1) Do not trust the test strips or the pool store tests.
    2) Order a recommended test kit to get the most help from others and not have to make guesses.
    3) Look in the Bleach prices 2015 thread to see if you have a store that has good prices on liquid chlorine/bleach.
    4) Go pickup a cheap 3-way OTO drop test and a box or two of 20 Mule Team Borax at WalMart.
    5) Get bleach while at Walmart or from somewhere with a better price per oz/chlorine.
    6) Measure pH on OTO test kit and use Pool Math to determine how much Borax to add to increase pH to 7.2.
    7) Test pH 60 minutes later, if <7.2 then repeat step 6.
    8) Use pool math to determine how much liquid chlorine/bleach to add to target 8ppm TC (you'll only see TC on OTO test)
    9) Test every hour and when TC on OTO is <=5ppm go to step 8.
    10) Let filter run 24/7, check every few hours to ensure PSI is not more than 25% over the normal clean pressure (PSI right after a thorough backwash and rinse).
    11) Wait patiently for a recommended test kit.


    The purpose of a recommended test kit is so we can trust the numbers and not guess at things. You cannot SLAM a pool without having an accurate CYA test and cannot Maintain shock levels (the "M" in SLAM) if you cannot test FC that high. Only an FAS-DPD test kit can test FC at the shock levels you should be maintaining during a SLAM.
    17,100 Gal 27' x 52" AGP steel wall vinyl; 44gpm Cooper sand filter; Hayward 1hp sp1580 single-speed; 1.5" plumbing, 1 skimmer/jet, inline chlorinator.
    Chlorine / CYA Chart | SLAM Process | Chlorine cost/fl. oz calculator

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    728

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Ph has nothing to do with making your water clear. PH needs to be maintained between 7.2 and 7.8 at all times.

    3 gallons of MA will lower PH in 15k gallons by 6.15, so if it started at 8.2 it is somewhere around 2.

    Chlorine makes your water clear. With cloudy water you need to follow this process, Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    I think we can't use PoolMath to come to this conclusion (i.e. pH of 2) - there's a note in the calculator that the results get increasingly inaccurate for large pH deviations. This is certainly a large deviation from the typical 7.2 - 7.8 range.

    However, it's certainly safe to say the pool is now much too acidic. I think you (that is, the original poster) have to get your pH back into a reasonable range before dealing with algae and water clarity. For all I know, this acid level might actually be bad for algae, but that would be an inadvertent experiment. I would worry more that very low pH could be bad for pool materials and equipment.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    4,615

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    I would get at least 4 boxes of borax (laundry section of most stores- I get mine at Menard's) Do it ASAP. Add a box to a bucket of water and mix thoroughly before adding to pool. Or slowly, very slowly, add it to your skimmer. Do one box and retest an hour later. Keep doing it until your pH rises above 6.8.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,998

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Yep, PH might be 3 instead of 2. But, the pool is also 13k gal and not 15k. Either way PH needs to be fixed pronto. I think PH of 2 or 3 would kill everything in the pool.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    4,615

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    ...Either way PH needs to be fixed pronto. I think PH of 2 or 3 would kill everything in the pool.
    And the liner... And the equipment... Very low pH is the number one FIX IT NOW! Tonight if possible.

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    728

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Note that borax and soda ash (the two remedies suggested to raise pH) will both raise TA at the same time. Borax has less of this effect than soda ash. I'm not sure how prices and availability compare.

    It's kind of ironic that fixing the pH fiasco may raise TA numbers higher than they were before the MA was dumped into the pool in the first place.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    728

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Just looking back - 32 hours since MA was added, according to the first post - that's already a long time.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North OKC Area
    Posts
    298

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Actually, the borates calculator in Pool Math says 384oz of 31.45% MA offsets the addition of 10.7 boxes of borax. You might need to buy up to 11 boxes, but if you find only a few in one store take it home and add it to skimmer and go get some more. Your pH should have increased some on it's own and you were a little high to start with so you may only need 8 or 9 boxes. Get an OTO comparator it should help you see how close you're getting to a reasonable pH level. I would start testing pH every 10 minutes after the first 5 boxes and every box until pH color starts to match the bottom color on an OTO 3-way test comparator. When it's close to the bottom color on the comparator start waiting 30 minutes between additions and start adding less.

    If your MA was less than 20 Baume (31.45%), then you need less borax.
    17,100 Gal 27' x 52" AGP steel wall vinyl; 44gpm Cooper sand filter; Hayward 1hp sp1580 single-speed; 1.5" plumbing, 1 skimmer/jet, inline chlorinator.
    Chlorine / CYA Chart | SLAM Process | Chlorine cost/fl. oz calculator

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Buckeye AZ
    Posts
    807

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    He didn't say what strength of MA he used. I know at the grocery store by me it's 14.5, at the pool store is the 31.45%. God forbid it be 31.5.

    Just a few things that slipped though:
    Cloudiness, esp after rain and no circulation, is the beginning of an algae outbreak. Rain dilutes the FC in your pool, even if slightly, and there seem to be quite a few people here the past two week who said their pool went crazy after heavy rains. rain should be pure water, not introducing a bunch of issues, but that's not what I've seen people here say the past few weeks. Anyway, you'll need to get the FC to the SLAM level for your CYA reading.

    BUT, chlorine will temporarily raise pH, AND, the pH test will be inaccurate when the FC gets above 10. This may be why you thought you had crazy high pH to begin with, as you said you were doing a SLAM. As was stated, find yourself a 4-5 hour window as soon as possible, leave your pump running, and start adding borax or soda ash in cycles: add, mix with brush if needed and let circulate, try again. once it's low 7's you can get back to your SLAM. though, if you don't have a test kit with a reliable CYA test, you won't know what FC level you need to hold at to kill the algae. Blue but cloudy is closer to the finish line that green and cloudy at least.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sere81 View Post
    Thank you all for the quick replies.

    I came to the conclusion of 3 gal of muriatic acid from a youtube video who basically said that every .8qrts would lower my total alkalinity 10PPM per 10K gallons of water.
    the basic premise is correct, not sure specifically on the math, but you (or the video) missed a distinction. You would use MA to bring down your TA in steps. Add acid to get to 7.2, then aerate the pool until the pH is back near 7.8. then add more acid to lower TA, aerate, etc. That process wasn't meant to be extrapolated out to lower the TA all at once.
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
    Hayward DE filter, 2HP Ecostar VSP, ProLogic PS-4, GVA actuators
    Cal Pools Wave Force Plus (wall return jets plus 2 floor pop-ups), Venturi Skimmer
    Water sheer, 2 wok pots, bubbler stem on the baja step
    ColorLogic Mutlicolor LED lamp. Taylor 2006+speed stir

  19. Back To Top    #19

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,084

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Let's all slow down a bit and help this newbie.

    1. Get your pH back up to around 7.4 or so using 20 Mule team Borax and PoolMath......do that now...not later but now.

    2. Simultaneously, get chlorine in your pool. Use PoolMath to bring it to about 4 ppm.

    3. You will need CYA to hold your chlorine better. Use PoolMath and put in enough to get to 30 ppm.

    read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. You must obtain a basic understanding of the parameters you are adjusting.

    That's it for now. Post back with questions.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: Really confused about what to do, please HELP

    Thank you all so much for the help so far.

    All the numbers are basically unchanged as of 7-10 in the am.

    After work I will go get a cheap drop tester until a proper tester arrives.

    I will call the wife and see if she can get the borax and start adding so I don't have to wait till I get off work.

    Thank you

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •