Milky white water after gritty substance removal

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Thomk

0
Jul 6, 2015
57
Grosse Pointe Woods MI
Hello,

I have a 11,000, in ground, vinyl, kidney shaped-pool and a cartridge filter (not sand). The guys that closed my pool last year did not drain much water and after the (new) guys opened it this year I have been having trouble keeping the water clear.

I did actually clear it up earlier this year (just running the filter and keeping the levels in check) and we swam in it, but, I noticed (while swimming) that there was this *gritty* feeling to the walls. I also noticed that everything I netted off of the bottom was WHITE. Which was weird and kind of gross. The leaves, worms, everything was white. Weird. Anyway, since I was swimming in the pool I swam around and just took my hand and sort of wiped down all the walls. While doing this the water was becoming cloudy. That was 2 weeks ago. I have tried everything I can think of to get this water clean.

I tried Floc, Clarifier, Heavy duty clarifier and running my filter non-stop for 2 weeks. No improvement.

I took a water sample in to the pool store and the guy said all my levels were perfect aside from chlorine and there was no calcium! I have been shocking the pool, 3 gallons yesterday, 1 today and still no improvement. I can't even see the bottom steps of my ladder.

When I rinse out the filter, this white milky substance comes off. And on the ground where I rinsed it, I noticed it collects into wavy clumps. The filter is working but not well enough. Oh, and yesterday I took the top off of my filter and there was this white/grey sludge stuck to the top of it where it was obviously collecting from the pool.

I don't think it's calcium because I tested for that and even though it tested negative I added some chemicals to treat calcium anyway. I don't think it's white mold because it isn't collecting as 'paper sheets' in the pool.

As I said before I Floc'd the pool and waited 24 hours and it did nothing.

I'm really stumped. I have a new cartridge on the way for my filter. If that doesn't work I'm going to fill in the pool and plant a garden.

Here are pictures of the steps in the pool, the water test I just did and the chemicals I've tried. Please help, it's 80 degrees today and we want to swim!


Picture of 3 steps, you can see how cloudy the pool is here:
http://i.imgur.com/Dh2YWvx.jpg

My latest water test (the test strip is on the far left)
http://i.imgur.com/KzKP4jd.jpg

The 4 things I've tried to get this problem cleared up
http://i.imgur.com/MGJjtCx.jpg


Any help will be greatly appreciated,

Thom
 

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The number one thing you need is your own test kit. We hear it so many times----------The pool store tested and........

When they get their own test kit they see just how wrong the pool store was.

Look at my siggy below to see the test kits we all use and love.

What is your pool make of? Please look at the getting started part of the home page and fill in your info. so we can better help you.

Kim
 
TK, Sorry to say but test strips and pool stores are so far off its not even going to help you.. And because you cant give us good numbers we cant help you clear your pool.. Spend a few minutes reading some other posts and you will see we can help, but you will need a good test kit...

The TF100 is the best, add the XL option and it sounds like you have a high CH level so you may want to get the speed stir :) its awesome...

the other kit is the K2006 but it does not have enough reagents you will need, you could get the K2006c but it costs more than the TF100...

Hope this helps :)
 
CH = calcium

which you shouldn't need to have added if you're vinyl.

All of those chemicals you posted should be tossed in the trash or returned if not opened and bought recently.

Some, maybe all of that has likely made it worse.

Have you cleaned the filter at all?

If the filter is properly working it should have cleared up in 3-4 days.
 
It's possible the white stuff is dead algae.

how often do you brush your pool?

I was negligent in doing that and after 2 different algae outbreaks, my pool was quite cloudy after brushing.

finally after my last slam and brushing twice a day for 6 days, there is no cloud of white when I rub the plaster.
 

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Thomk said:
Yes I clean the filter twice a day.

- - - Updated - - -

If I knew what the milky white substance was I could fix the problem. I have a new filter on the way, I'm hoping that helps.
Click to expand...

That is a true statement. We need test results to help you figure out what it is. What is good? Need a number.
PH
TA
CH
How do you chlorinate your pool?
Do you shock? What shock do you use?
It seems like it could be calcium clouding and scale. Need some numbers and info to verify.
 
Test strips are often not reliable and pool store testing is also often not reliable. This is why we recommend you get a proper test kit such as the TFTestkits TF-100 or the Taylor K-2006. See Test Kits Compared to see why the TF-100 is a better value. You say you also have a test kit, not just test strips, but I doubt your test kit has a FAS-DPD chlorine test and it sounds like it may not test for CH nor CYA.

Your unreliable test strips show a possibly high total hardness of perhaps 250 ppm yet you say the pool store says you have no calcium in the pool. Though that is technically possible since the test strip does not test for Calcium Hardness, only Total Hardness that includes Magnesium, usually hardness from fill water will not have magnesium without calcium (usually calcium is the largest component of total hardness).

The Grosse Pointe Woods Water Quality Report says your water comes from the Detroit River. Unfortunately, they do not list water hardness or calcium levels. This old paper from the USGS shows that the Detroit River has roughly 100 ppm Total Hardness and 80 ppm TA. Calcium is listed as 27 ppm which in calcium carbonate units would be 68 ppm.

Do you see how ridiculous it is for us to have to scour the Internet finding a USGS report from 1950 in order to more reliably determine the water chemistry of your pool? Do you see how inconsistent your own test strips (250 ppm Total Hardness) and the water quality report (100 ppm TH, 68 ppm CH) are from the pool store results (0 ppm CH)? Do you now see why we insist on people getting a proper test kit? Otherwise, we are literally shooting in the dark. You want us to help you, but so far you don't seem willing to help us or yourself by getting a proper test kit.

Now let's look at all the garbage products you have thrown into your pool that likely have only made things worse because 1) many individual products do not work for arbitrary problems so you have to know the true water chemistry in your pool before you use them (IF you use any at all which normally you don't need to) and 2) many combinations of products interact negatively with each other. GLB Sequa-Sol according to this MSDS contains sodium citrate which is a salt of citric acid. Citric Acid is a reducing agent and will consume chlorine and after chlorine is consumed then it will reduce iron or copper stains to make them soluble into the water. This MSDS says the product also contains sodium hexametaphosphate which is a highly negatively charged metal sequestrant. This MSDS for Robarb Super Blue says it contains 2-PROPEN-1-AMINIUM, N,N-DIMETHYL-N-2- 26062-79-3 PROPENYL-, C which is also known as PolyDADMAC which is a cationic (positively charged) polymeric clarifier. According to this link, PoolTown Hydro Floc is aluminum sulfate otherwise known as alum floc (flocculant) that is also highly positively charged. This link and this link says that Ocean Breeze Micro Clean is a "Concentrated clarifier formulation for Salt Chlorine Generating Systems". Do you have a saltwater chlorine generator for your pool?

As a general rule, positively charged polymeric clarifiers are incompatible with negatively charged metal sequestrants and can create a precipitated cloudy mess. You have 2 clarifiers (one known to be a positively charged polymer and the other presumed to be so) and alum floc which is also positively charged and forms floc. You also have negatively charged hexametaphosphate though it is not polymeric. Basically you have now significantly overdosed your pool with clarifier and flocculant and thrown in metal sequestrant into the mix where there does not appear to have been any need for metal sequestration (did you have a metal staining problem?).

Going again back to your unreliable test strips, but based on the fact that you have put in a metal sequestrant with sodium citrate that will consume chlorine, your chlorine level appears to be at or near zero. This would allow algae to grow and early algae growth can make the pool water cloudy before turning green. Normally we'd also need to know the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level, but your test strips show that as possibly being near zero but test strips are usually the worst at measuring CYA so who the heck knows what your CYA level could possibly be.

Though we would normally have you Defeating Algae by doing a SLAM to kill off algae, we have absolutely no idea how much chlorine you should put into your pool because we do not know the true CYA level and knowing that is absolutely critical to determining the proper Free Chlorine (FC) level. You could use PoolMath to determine how much bleach or chlorinating liquid to add to get to 10 ppm FC in your pool, but if you truly have no CYA then you'd want to get some into your pool either using pure CYA or using Dichlor as your initial source of chlorine. Otherwise with no CYA in the pool not only will the active chlorine level be too high because it will not be moderated in its strength by any CYA, but it will also get broken down in sunlight quickly (again because of no CYA). On the other hand, if your CYA level is exceptionally high, then a partial drain/refill would be in order. We also have absolutely no idea what chlorine products you currently have on hand that you could use. Are you getting a sense for how frustrating it must be for us to try and help you without water chemistry results from a reliable test kit? There are at least 100 Reasons for Cloudy Swimming Pool Water. With measurements from a proper test kit, we can quickly narrow down to the most likely cause and know how to treat the pool.

You also need to continue filtering 24/7 and brushing the pool to try and get rid of this precipitated cloudy mess that has been created by blindly throwing in a large variety of chemicals into your pool, overdosing on clarifiers and flocculants and adding a possibly unnecessary metal sequestrant to boot. If you were doing this on the advice of your pool store then this is yet another example of why many pool stores cannot be trusted and why you should minimize what gets added to your pool and instead find a source of unbiased information not related to the pool industry whose primary goal is to make money selling you product. This website is run by pool owners volunteering our time helping each other, has no ads, and is based on peer-reviewed science and consistent observation over thousands upon thousands of pools. We get nearly half a million visitors per month at TFP during peak swim season. And all that we ask is that people get a proper test kit so that we can start off by knowing the truth in their pools and so that you can start to take charge of your own pool for a lot less money going forward.

I hope you can appreciate the time and effort that we spend trying to help people and that you will meet us halfway by doing your part.
 
Thomk,
I'm just popping in to say welcome to TFP!

I bet you're starting to wonder if we're all crazy.

Here's the thing, there's a whole bunch of people here who really want to help you fix this.

We do it because we really like helping people. We really do.

We know we can help if we just know what's going on.

We can only know reliably what is going on if you can give us 100% reliable test results.

We're all chomping at the bit to help but a proper test kit is an absolute must.

With reliable numbers, there are people here who can help figure out what's going on and exactly how to fix it step by step.

Personally, I'm addicted to this place. lol

I want to help too.

Please check the links others have posted for what test kits we recommend. (I use the tf-100)

It sounds cheesy but help us help you. Get us some numbers and we'll get this fixed!
 
Borjis,

Really, dead algae. I hadn't thought of that. What do you mean by "slam"?

borjis said:
It's possible the white stuff is dead algae.

how often do you brush your pool?

I was negligent in doing that and after 2 different algae outbreaks, my pool was quite cloudy after brushing.

finally after my last slam and brushing twice a day for 6 days, there is no cloud of white when I rub the plaster.
Click to expand...
 

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