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Thread: Troubleshoot with me? Pump and Filter

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
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    Troubleshoot with me? Pump and Filter

    20K Gallon Underground Pool
    New England area
    Hayward 1hp Superpump (old)
    Hayward 60sf filter

    I'm just now opening my pool, been redoing the deck.

    Ok, so I had the old Hayward 'finger' DE filter with an old 1hp Hayward Superpump. Note: I pump from a main drain in the deep end as well as one skimmer. I usually use the skimmer alone.

    I kept having trouble with losing pressure very quickly and my bump handle shaft kept corroding and breaking, thus I continually had to unscrew ~30 stainless screws to get inside, rinse it off, and restart...because my backwash wasn't cleaning the fingers well - all the DE was getting mucked up in it...even after I backwashed there was tons of it still in there once I went into it. So annoying. No bump and no backwash effectiveness. So, I read online to 'go bigger' when you replace the filter. So I bought the Hayward 60sf filter - brand new - as I wanted an easier filter to deal with. I also got the controller that offers filter/circulate/backwash/rinse/waste. I was super psyched to not have to deal with my old filter anymore and finally have an easy open.

    Only I have run into a few problems.

    1. I still lose pressure very quickly...even though the pool isn't that dirty and the filter is brand new and should have PLENTY of capacity. It started at 10psi. By 20psi, I lose pressure to returns. A bit weak at only 20psi. I backwash, rinse, add DE...and within 4 hours I'm losing pressure to returns again. I have backwashed this big filter about 6 times in one weekend. A bit excessive. Again, the pool is not 'that' dirty. It's blue-ish and I can see the third step (barely). Again, note, the pool is not that dirty and I have had this problem with my old filter even when the pool was pretty clean.

    2. After backwashing, I opened it up and AGAIN there was DE still all over the filter. Showed pic to a pool guy and he said if I backwashed it shouldn't be that mucky. It didn't clean it off very well. The next time I backwashed, I checked where I backwashed in the grass and it really isn't that much DE left behind. I backwashed about 3 inches out of my pool...kept it running for a while. Added just 4lbs of DE instead of the normal 5-ish and the recommended 7lbs. Still lost pressure within hours. Opened it up, still dirty fins...though not AS dirty because I didn't use as much DE. This explains why it only takes a few hours to get to 20psi and lose my pressure both in and out. Similar issue to my old filter...and what I was trying to fix.

    3. After the pump goes for about 2 hours or so, I notice the filter basket water drops down a few inches until it is just at the top of the filter basket. Likely an air leak but ring on filter basket is fine.


    Ok, so the question, is my 1hp pump not strong enough? Does that explain why it (a) loses pressure so quickly (b) can't pump enough pressure once the DE coats the filter (c) why it gets to just 20psi and can't seem to crack that level and (c) why it can't seem to backwash itself clean? Is it not enough pressure to really clean the fins on a backwash? And perhaps the fingers in the past filter too? When I run the pump ONLY on circulate, the returns flow is really strong because it bypasses the filter. But once I try to run it with the filter, it seems to lose its power very, very quickly. I know the easy answer is "It's just dirty, keep backwashing it", but I've literally had the pump lose its ability to put pressure back in the returns within an hour of the backwash. And the backwashing does not seem to be efficient in EITHER the new or the old filter. The pool is not that dirty after a month of dealing with this and cleaning it super slowly, but I can't deal with this ongoing...

    Thinking about a new 1.5hp pump (1.5 inch piping in place)...hoping that would help...but wondering if anyone else has experience with this. And hoping someone will tell me the pump is the problem, and not something else.

    bp
    25,000 Gallon In-ground. DE Filter. Hayward Pump. Fairly new at this, so it's still a pain in the butt.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Troubleshoot with me? Pump and Filter

    A DE filter is very efficient at catch debris in the water and can clog quickly ... sounds like you pool is cloudy.

    We actually recommend backwashing when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure ... so waiting until 20psi is WAY too long.

    3) If your filter is clogged up and you leave the pump running, that is going to pull a harder vacuum a think and could be why the water in the pump is dropping.

    a) A 1HP should be plenty strong ... I have a 2-speed 1HP pump and runs fine on low speed.
    b) The filter is clogged, so the pressure will rise and the flow will stop
    c) Why do you think you need higher pressure?
    d) They just do not backwash completely, but should backwash around 80% of the DE out.

    Cloudy water is a chemistry issue and if you are not actively following the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process, I am guessing that the algae just keeps on growing and clogging up your filter.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Troubleshoot with me? Pump and Filter

    Hi, thank you very much for the quick response.

    Chemistry in the pool is within limits. I think my backwash took off more like 20% of the DE...rather than the 80%. This is one of the reasons I thought maybe pump was too small for that size filter?

    Should I really have to backwash every 1-2 hours on a pool that I can see the third step on? It literally moves from 12psi to 15psi in half an hour after backwash. I'd go through 2 bags a day with a relatively clean pool. I had a pool guy come over after I opened/hosed down the filter and restarted it...and he said the pool was 'almost there'...but noted my pump was really hot...said I shouldn't have to backwash but one or two more times all season...and pump should finish clearing the water. 3 days later...pool hasn't changed for better or worse and I still lose pressure very quickly after every backwash.

    I don't think I need high pressure, I just think maybe the 1hp pump that is really really old may not be pumping at a 1hp level? Could that be?

    I understand the rationale. Makes sense. But doesn't feel like the issue. I've had it clunk up and not backwash in my old filter too. Literally tons of gunk between the fingers even after backwashing. Fins the other day were covered in DE after the backwash. Had an inch of DE sitting on the top of the fins and the fins were still virtually covered in DE.
    25,000 Gallon In-ground. DE Filter. Hayward Pump. Fairly new at this, so it's still a pain in the butt.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Troubleshoot with me? Pump and Filter

    Your symptoms are typical of an algae problem, not an equipment problem. You probably need to SLAM the pool until it clears up. The reason the filters clog is because you are filtering live algae that keeps multiplying so you never get ahead. You need to kill the algae, remove the dead algae and then operate as normal. Have you run a OCLT?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Troubleshoot with me? Pump and Filter

    Since you are generating pressure in the filter, clearly the pump is trying to move water, so it should also have enough flow when backwashing. Is your backwash port plumbed or open? What is the pressure when you try to backwash?

    We do not really trust statements like "Chemistry is within limits" ... whose limits? And what are you testing with?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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