It is currently May 25th, 2012, 7:10 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]



 Page 1 of 1 [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 10th, 2011, 5:31 pm 
New User

Joined: April 24th, 2010, 8:00 pm
Posts: 18
When conducting the Calcium Hardness (CH) test using the TF-100 Test Kit, I get pinkish precipitate in the solution when I add the R-011L reagent. When I then add the R-0012 reagent, I get no color change, regardless of how much I add. I don't add copper algecide to my pool, but I did the R-0012 add prior to the R-011L reagent anyway with no change in results.
What is the problem? :?:



_________________
20K IG White Plaster Pool & Jacuzzi - 2 HP Purex WhisperFlo Pump - 70ft2 150GPM Purex D.E. Filter, TF100 Test Kit
Laguna Niguel, CA
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 10th, 2011, 9:02 pm 
Lifetime Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
User avatar

Joined: January 6th, 2010, 10:54 am
Posts: 2477
Location: San Dimas, CA (LA County)
You didn't forget the R-0010 did you?



_________________
16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 11th, 2011, 2:16 am 
Lifetime Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
User avatar

Joined: July 16th, 2010, 4:22 am
Posts: 1068
Location: Portland, Oregon
Mark92677 wrote:
When I then add the R-0012 reagent, I get no color change, regardless of how much I add.


Mind if I ask how much exactly is "regardless of how much I add"?

CA water is often high in calcium. Is it possible you're giving up too early? CH in the upper 400-600's isn't uncommon. Especially with pools chlorinated with cal-hypo at any previous point.

What is your pool's history? Can you post a full set of results?

If you're getting an actual pink result at first, you have some calcium, you just need to find the cap. I haven't ever seen pink. I get a dull brownish yellow at first when I test both the pool and the tap water. Pool is about 20ppm, tap is 2ppm. Neither turn anything close to pink when I begin the test. The test calls for a red to blue change (brownish yellow is a degree of red => blue, as I see it). I see a blue tint and then no further change with additional drops. The drop that turns it tinted blue is the value I record.



_________________
Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL! Year 2 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Two 1000gph Intex style pump/filters (see full-time-pumping-intex-t33543.html)
I use http://www.poolcalculator.com for minimum/maximum and shocking chlorine levels
Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around http://www.tftestkits.net
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 11th, 2011, 2:38 am 
Special Contributor
Special Contributor

Joined: March 28th, 2007, 2:40 pm
Posts: 5412
Location: San Rafael, CA USA
As described here, metal ions can interfere with the Calcium Hardness (CH) test creating the pink floaties you are seeing and making the endpoint fade or be less distinguishable. You can add some (say, 5) drops of R-0012 titrant first to the sample before you add the R-0010 calcium buffer or R-0011L indicator dye. Though you might still get some floaties, the endpoint should be more distinct.

If you think your CH might be high, then use a 10 ml sample size where each drop is 25 ppm (see this page for instructions on this where you use 10 drops of R-0010 and 3 drops of R-0011L).



_________________
16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 11th, 2011, 6:52 am 
Special Contributor
Special Contributor

Joined: April 1st, 2007, 8:12 am
Posts: 11344
Location: Raleigh, NC
Adding to what Richard posted, your thread from April of last year indicates a HIGH concentration of metals in the water......not black algae. If that was never resolved, it would certainly explain the "floaties" in the CH test.



_________________
Dave S.
Site Owner
TFTestkits owner
TFTestkits , Pool Calculator , Pool School
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 11th, 2011, 5:13 pm 
New User

Joined: April 24th, 2010, 8:00 pm
Posts: 18
duraleigh wrote:
Adding to what Richard posted, your thread from April of last year indicates a HIGH concentration of metals in the water......not black algae. If that was never resolved, it would certainly explain the "floaties" in the CH test.


Yes this is true, I did have high copper content in the water. I completely drained the pool, flushed the plumbing with fresh water, replaced the filters and all of this after I had given the pool a wash with Ascorbic Acid to remove the copper stains.
So the pool has all new fresh water.

So far, nothing that anyone has said accounts for the precipitate (soft clumps) that are created when I add the R-0011L reagent, which of course follows the R-0010 reagent which has thoroughly been mixed in solution. The question is, what chemical reaction could cause this formation of precipitate. The test instructions and the test kit web site don't even address this possible reaction. :(



_________________
20K IG White Plaster Pool & Jacuzzi - 2 HP Purex WhisperFlo Pump - 70ft2 150GPM Purex D.E. Filter, TF100 Test Kit
Laguna Niguel, CA
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 11th, 2011, 5:16 pm 
New User

Joined: April 24th, 2010, 8:00 pm
Posts: 18
chem geek wrote:
As described here, metal ions can interfere with the Calcium Hardness (CH) test creating the pink floaties you are seeing and making the endpoint fade or be less distinguishable. You can add some (say, 5) drops of R-0012 titrant first to the sample before you add the R-0010 calcium buffer or R-0011L indicator dye. Though you might still get some floaties, the endpoint should be more distinct.

If you think your CH might be high, then use a 10 ml sample size where each drop is 25 ppm (see this page for instructions on this where you use 10 drops of R-0010 and 3 drops of R-0011L).


I'm not so sure that the CH is high as it appears that some other chemical reaction is occuring that is interfering with the test, or there is something wrong with the reagents.
I'll try adding 5 drops of R-0012 prior to and see what happens.



_________________
20K IG White Plaster Pool & Jacuzzi - 2 HP Purex WhisperFlo Pump - 70ft2 150GPM Purex D.E. Filter, TF100 Test Kit
Laguna Niguel, CA
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 11th, 2011, 5:17 pm 
New User

Joined: April 24th, 2010, 8:00 pm
Posts: 18
Richard320 wrote:
You didn't forget the R-0010 did you?


Nope!



_________________
20K IG White Plaster Pool & Jacuzzi - 2 HP Purex WhisperFlo Pump - 70ft2 150GPM Purex D.E. Filter, TF100 Test Kit
Laguna Niguel, CA
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 11th, 2011, 6:30 pm 
Lifetime Supporter
Lifetime Supporter

Joined: April 18th, 2011, 10:25 am
Posts: 15
Location: Maryland
Mine does the same thing, never turns red, just pink and has never turned blue, I have put a half a bottle of 0012 and it went clear. What I have been doing is going to the pool store, they use Taylor drops and I watch them do the test counting drops and it turns red and then blue and I dont know why, I use there number for CH and mine for everything else



_________________
18000 gal Gunite free form
Jandy 1 HP pump
Jandy DEV 48 filter
Raypak 400 heater
Goldline Proligic SWCG
Solaxx chemical feeder
Dolphin Deluxe 4
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 11th, 2011, 7:40 pm 
Special Contributor
Special Contributor

Joined: April 1st, 2007, 8:12 am
Posts: 11344
Location: Raleigh, NC
chucklh wrote:
Mine does the same thing, never turns red, just pink and has never turned blue, I have put a half a bottle of 0012 and it went clear. What I have been doing is going to the pool store, they use Taylor drops and I watch them do the test counting drops and it turns red and then blue and I dont know why, I use there number for CH and mine for everything else

I assume you are using the TF-100 for testing CH.

It is, in fact, the Taylor test you are performing. It is their chemistry. I can't explain why the pool store is getting results and you are not but the tests are identical in every way.



_________________
Dave S.
Site Owner
TFTestkits owner
TFTestkits , Pool Calculator , Pool School
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 12th, 2011, 8:06 am 
Mod Squad
Mod Squad
User avatar

Joined: June 22nd, 2009, 7:06 pm
Posts: 11364
Location: South Alabama
On the CH test especially, swirling makes a huge difference in how the color progresses. I suggest you get a speedstir if you don't already have one and see if that helps.



_________________
Dave J.
TFP Moderator
24' x 52" Round AGP. 1.5hp Dynamo pump. 24" Pentair Sand Dollar Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Peristaltic Pump
Pool School Pool Calculator TF-Test Kit
You have passed the OCLT when: 1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 12th, 2011, 9:40 am 
Lifetime Supporter
Lifetime Supporter

Joined: August 28th, 2010, 9:35 am
Posts: 177
Location: Boston, MA
chucklh wrote:
Mine does the same thing, never turns red, just pink and has never turned blue, I have put a half a bottle of 0012 and it went clear. What I have been doing is going to the pool store, they use Taylor drops and I watch them do the test counting drops and it turns red and then blue and I dont know why, I use there number for CH and mine for everything else

When I had a similar effect, I was told by Richard and Jason that high FC could be the reason. What's your FC?



_________________
20k gallon IGP
Plaster over gunite
3/4 hp Hayward pump
Purex Triton DE filter
TF100 test kit w/ speedstir
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 12th, 2011, 10:17 am 
In the Industry

Joined: March 2nd, 2011, 8:02 pm
Posts: 1611
Make a sample of 50 % pool water and 50 % distilled water. Mix well. Follow these steps to test:

1) Rinse and fill large comparator tube to 25 mL mark with water to be tested.

2) Add 10 drops R-0012. Swirl to mix.

3) Add 20 drops R-0010. Swirl to mix.

4) Add 5 drops R-0011L. Swirl to mix. If calcium hardness is present, sample will turn red.

5) Add R-0012 dropwise. After each drop, count and swirl to mix until color changes from red to blue.

6) Add the original 10 drops of R-0012 to the number of drops needed in step 5, and multiply the total number of drops by 20. Record as parts per million (ppm) calcium hardness as calcium carbonate.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: TF-100 Test Kit Problem
PostPosted: September 12th, 2011, 11:17 am 
Lifetime Supporter
Lifetime Supporter

Joined: April 18th, 2011, 10:25 am
Posts: 15
Location: Maryland
I do have the speedstir and love it.
I hold the FC at 6 with a CYA of 60



_________________
18000 gal Gunite free form
Jandy 1 HP pump
Jandy DEV 48 filter
Raypak 400 heater
Goldline Proligic SWCG
Solaxx chemical feeder
Dolphin Deluxe 4
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  


TroubleFreePool.com The Web