Thanks for the welcome! I may have my own thread to start eventually, but I am learning as much as I can for now and my water is currently perfectly clear. The rest of the story doesn't belong in this thread, but thanks for the welcome!

Rained on & off all week.
5/22-27/09
Daily Leslie’s “Trouble Shooter DPD”, looked like FC 4-5 and used target 8

5/28/09
Weekly FAS DPD
FC 4
CC 0.5
pH 7.5

5/29/09
Added Borates, pump will run 24 hrs
About 3-4 hours later, both OTO & Leslie’s “Trouble Shooter DPD”, looked like FC 3, used target 8.

Anything special you want me to do differently since the borates are in? Check borate level in 1 week I suppose? Then test as you said, maybe 1-2 times per season unless a lot of water replacement.

Welcome Waterwort. I was hoping this thread helped others. I’m tempted to re-read the thread & create a list of common testing errors etc since so many suggestions were made (it ain’t rocket science but don’t make a mistake). And boy do I appreciate the contributors.
Grand tally of bleach was just under $250 I’m pretty sure- too painful to review. Not a day was ever missed; never did I go backwards/start all over like what can happen in an algae battle. If the ammonia thing happens again, I’ve already calculated how much the dirt will cost to fill the pool for all time.
Wife is OK. She gets twitches & her hair has fallen out- must have been that unsafe pool water early on.
There isn’t much swimming until June really. We open in March to beat the algae etc.

My #1 interest on TFP now is to learn how to properly close. But I constantly come up with non-closing questions.

Re you guys considering adding borates. I read all the threads about it. Without question, the “just add the boric acid” (or one of the store bought products) is much easier than the method of “muriatic acid + borax twice etc”. Boric acid route: total $107 from AAA chemicals, forgot to check thechemistrystore- should have compared. Ordered a 50lb bag to dispense 47 lb into the pool, but a 55 lb bag arrived, so read the bag.

You can test the borate level after 48 hours. The only real change is that you shouldn't need quite as much chlorine to maintain your FC level as before, though the difference may or may not be noticeable.

5/28- 6/5/09; plenty rain this week.
Daily Leslie’s “Trouble Shooter DPD”, looked like FC 4-5 and used target 8

5/29/09
Added Borates. I haven’t re-tested for borates, but will in tomarrows daylight.

6/3-5/09- pH 7.5-7.8, climbing from last week

6/6/09
Weekly FAS DPD
FC 3.5
CC 0.5
pH 7.8- 8.2, climbing out of the recommended 7.5-7.8

On 5/11/09 (26 days ago)
TA 110
CH 340

I need to lower pH?
So in the calc I enter Now 8.2 & Target 7.8? So add 18oz or muriatic acid? Any time day or night, right?

Thanks

You want to keep PH between 7.5 and 7.8. When it gets to 7.8 you should lower it back to 7.5. So the target will be 7.5. You also need to enter your current TA and Borate levels when calculating PH changes. I get between 3 and 4 quarts of acid, depending on where the PH has gotten to by the time you add acid. Given the large PH change, it would be best to make the change in at least two steps, rechecking the PH in between, so any calculation errors don't accidentally make the PH too low.

You can add acid any time, just make sure that the pump runs while adding acid and for at least 30 minutes after adding acid.

Here are today's test results
pH 7.8-8.2
TA 120
Borates 50

When I enter these figures in the calculator I get: add 49oz of muriatic acid. For pH I entered 7.8 Now & 7.5 Target.
What am I doing wrong on the calc? Jason gets "between 3 and 4 quarts of acid".
Geez- I still can't operate this calculator.


When you say "it would be best to make the change in at least two steps, rechecking the PH in between, so any calculation errors don't accidentally make the PH too low" , you mean to add the acid in 2 steps, say half the acid as step 1 then wait 1 hour & re-test the pH & enter the new pH in the calc to see the amount of acid needed for step 2? I don't need to re-test TA & Borates again at this step, right?

Thanks

Lets call your current PH 8.0 and target PH 7.5, current TA 120, current Borate 50, and gallons 19,800. Entering those numbers in my Pool Calculator I get 91 oz of 20 baumé 31.45% muriatic acid. That is just a little less than 3 quarts.

Yes, by doing it in two stages/steps I mean: add half the acid, wait an hour, test the PH again, and adjust from there.

That's what I get. Thanks & will add the acid

As usual, good call Jason.
After adding only half the amount of acid, ran two tests (1 hour & 2 hours afterwards), the pH tested 7.5.

I should test pH daily, regardless of this situation, right? You guys test pH daily, right?

Thanks

Testing PH daily is often a good idea, especially while you are getting used to how your pool behaves. Sometimes, when the pool is balanced so PH only changes very slowly, it is alright to test PH less often. But if PH is changing rapidly, or you are not yet fully familiar with how PH behaves in your pool, it is best to test PH daily.

Past few nights pH seemed over 7.5 ideal. between 7.5-7.8
Ran a daytime test today for daylight & to deal w muriatic acid in daylight.

Today's pH is 7.8, so I want to get down to 7.5.

Jason said:" You also need to enter your current TA and Borate levels when calculating PH changes. "
On 6/7/09, 4 days ago:
TA 120
Borates 50

Is 4 days ago accurate enough or best to run TA & Borates tests again? If 4 days ago is satisfactory (no need re-test TA & Borates), to avoid me asking about it in the future, when/how many days past/ under what conditions should one re-test TA & Borates?

Using the 6/7/09 TA & Borates results in the calculator (Target TA 120), the calc says to add 51 oz. of acid, right?
I'll halve this amount, so 25 oz. & re-check in 1 hour, right? Or no need for the 2-step-adding-acid process. Since I'm still new at this, still unfamiliar w how my pool behaves, 2-step is probably best, & you can't go wrong if you do a 2-step-acid process for life I suppose.


BTW, what is my Target TA when I use the calculator? Pool School says TA 70-90+. But the TF100 Test Kit says 90-120 is ok? Making my Target TA 110 did not change the acid amount of 51 oz.


Thanks

Your existing TA and borate levels are fine to use. Borate levels should remain stable for perhaps two months at a time, unless you have some major water replacement. TA should be measured every week or two.

For smaller PH changes, like this one, after a couple of cycles of lowering the PH, you should get used to how your pool responds and not need to do the add half and retest thing. But for now, adding half, waiting an hour, and then testing again to see how things went is a good idea.

6/17/09 weekly test
pH 7.8+; reading in daylight, so dropped to Target 7.5; I have not checked pH nightly for past few nights. pH tests that were done were below 7.8
FC 5
CC 0.5

6/18/09- pH is ideal 7.5


In another thread,
help-about-to-give-up-after-first-test-t14015.html
reebok wrote:
"I just figured out that in the last 40 days I've spent $7.06 on chlorine for my pool and used a half gallon of acid which costs 4.50 per gallon, and that's it "
And reebok's signature reads:
"16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels."


My daily FC reads about 4-5 & I target 8, so I add about $2-$3 of bleach a day?. I don't have a cover, (maybe reebok does? Is that his "solar panels")

Am I missing something? Does my daily bleach addition sound about right?
Thanks

Your FC use sounds normal to me, for an uncovered pool. Reebok has a "cage" - his pool is in a screenhouse kind of room. I don't know if the roof provides some uv blockage?

Anytime you are concerned if the FC loss is excessive, just do your favorite test - the overnight FC loss test. Take sunlight out of the equasion.

You don't list what your current CYA level is, but I remember from some time back that we suggested that you target a slightly higher than normal FC level because of the problems you had been having. It has been a while since then, so you should be able to go back to the usual FC target based on your CYA level at this point (if you haven't already).

I'd expect a lot of shade, maybe 50% coverage, maybe 80% if you paid up for it. I would, at least for the roof part if it altered the chlorine needs by that much.

I can tell you birdcage pools are significantly cooler, but as far as fc loss, I think I see about average, less so with the solar cover. I don't suppose evaporation/fc loss can occur through solar panels can it? I will post my daily usage soon.

If Reebok uses a solar cover, that would explain the difference.

I've used the cover on and off all year due to sucky weather. it's been off for about 2-3 weeks now. this is my chlorine usage since 5-8-09 which is about a week after I started using the chlorine/cya chart (I target 8ppm fc based on 70 cya). I also added borates in this period (on 5-25). this total goes up to 6-22-09.
2156oz/16.84375 gallons chlorine in 45 days. approx 47.91 ounces per day. I get 10.5% chlorine, but each batch varies in strength, so I add less sometimes and more other times.

Drats, I forgot that- ignorance is expensive. I recall asking if FC goes from about 8 to 4 daily is that about normal & the answer was "yes" so I assumed my Target of 8 was forever, I forgot that chart.
My last CYA test was on 4/19/09, CYA was 40 (a week before that it was 40-50)
From Pool School
CYA (Stabilizer) Minimum FC Target FC Shock FC
40 3 5 16
So assuming CYA is the same, I can Target 5? If so, I’ll actually Target 7 then 6 then 5 to see how it behaves.
What is the frequency or indications for testing CYA? Pool Start-up at the beginning of the season; and any time one has to alter the CYA he would re-test CYA to confirm CYA is at the desired level; and a unique issue where a Moderator requests it. Any other frequency or indications? Monthly, bimonthly, at closing (I’m certain closing is answered in Pool School, no time to search now).

Thanks