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ethany
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Post subject: Testing bromine?  Posted: October 19th, 2010, 4:59 pm |
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Joined: May 23rd, 2009, 5:55 pm Posts: 223
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I have a Taylor K-2006 test kit. I just filled my hot tub a few days ago, can I test for Bromine like I would chlorine? Use dpd powder and reagents? I realize it would be easier to just use chlorine but I would really like to use up the bromine(sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione 82.5% sodium bromide 14.7%).
How often do I need to test the water? I use it a few times a week and my wife even less.
_________________ 20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp zodiac swg with nature 2 duoclear system, pg2000 fiber optic lights hayward sand filter(medium is echoglass)
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chem geek
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Post subject: Re: Testing bromine?  Posted: October 19th, 2010, 5:18 pm |
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Joined: March 28th, 2007, 2:40 pm Posts: 5412 Location: San Rafael, CA USA
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[EDIT] Corrected ppm total bromine per drop for sample sizes; I had it reversed in my first draft of this post. [END-EDIT]
You can use the FAS-DPD chlorine test and just realize that when you are testing Free Chlorine (FC) in that test that you are really testing Total Bromine if you multiply your result by 2.25. So if you use a 25 ml sample, then every drop of titrant represents 0.45 ppm total bromine while if you use a 10 ml sample then every drop of titrant represents 1.125 ppm total bromine. You don't bother with the R-0003 for the CC test since it won't measure anything relevant -- the FC test measures both bromine and bromamine together (unlike chloramine that doesn't register in the FC test, but does in the CC test).
Last edited by chem geek on October 20th, 2010, 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_________________ 16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter 12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"
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Melt In The Sun
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Post subject: Re: Testing bromine?  Posted: October 20th, 2010, 8:59 am |
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Joined: October 29th, 2009, 1:20 pm Posts: 2590 Location: Tucson, AZ
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Richard, very concise and informative answer...but you switched the sample sizes!  Each drop of titrant in a 10 mL sample represents 1.125 ppm bromine, and each drop in a 25 mL sample is 0.45 ppm  .....right?
_________________ Without a good test kit, you will flounder in misery. 11,200 gal inground rectangle; Pebble-Tec finish; Hayward Tristar 1hp pump - Hayward Swimclear 325 ft2 cartridge filter - Aqua Rite SWG A & A 6-zone infloor cleaning system - AquaCal HeatWave heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg! TF Test Kits -- The Pool Calculator -- Pool School -- Support TFP! Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden
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dmanb2b
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Post subject: Re: Testing bromine?  Posted: October 20th, 2010, 9:12 am |
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Joined: April 4th, 2009, 9:30 am Posts: 3295 Location: NY
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If I'm not mistaken, I believe you can purchase r-0872 reagent as well to test for Bromine? Not sure if that makes the sample/drop counting process more simple.
_________________ 24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo
Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator
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chem geek
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Post subject: Re: Testing bromine?  Posted: October 20th, 2010, 1:46 pm |
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Joined: March 28th, 2007, 2:40 pm Posts: 5412 Location: San Rafael, CA USA
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Melt In The Sun wrote: Richard, very concise and informative answer...but you switched the sample sizes! :P Each drop of titrant in a 10 mL sample represents 1.125 ppm bromine, and each drop in a 25 mL sample is 0.45 ppm :goodjob:
.....right? Yes, I got it backwards and I've edited my post. Thanks for catching that. dmanb2b wrote: If I'm not mistaken, I believe you can purchase r-0872 reagent as well to test for Bromine? Not sure if that makes the sample/drop counting process more simple. Yes, you are correct and they do slightly adjust the concentration in the reagent so that one drop is 0.5 ppm with a 25 ml sample and 1.25 ppm for a 10 ml sample.
_________________ 16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter 12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"
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ethany
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Post subject: Re: Testing bromine?  Posted: October 20th, 2010, 4:10 pm |
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Joined: May 23rd, 2009, 5:55 pm Posts: 223
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Thank you for your reply,good to know. Two more questions,which is a easier and safe sanitizer Chlorine or bromine? Also can you put salt in your hot tub like you do a pool?
_________________ 20,000 gallon viking fiberglass pool w/aqua comfort heat pump, pentair whisperflo pump 1.5hp zodiac swg with nature 2 duoclear system, pg2000 fiber optic lights hayward sand filter(medium is echoglass)
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chem geek
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Post subject: Re: Testing bromine?  Posted: October 20th, 2010, 7:34 pm |
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Joined: March 28th, 2007, 2:40 pm Posts: 5412 Location: San Rafael, CA USA
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Some people prefer one over the other. Technically, chlorine is safer in the sense that the disinfection by-products it produces are generally less harmful than those formed from bromine (in particular the trihalomethanes). However, bromine is seen by some to be more convenient since you can have a floating bromine tab feeder maintaining bromine levels if you don't use the tub regularly. With chlorine, you'll have to add chlorine every day or two even if you don't use the tub. If you use it regularly (almost every day), then it's not a big deal to just add chlorine when you get out of the tub. See the following links for more info on how to use bromine and chlorine: Using Bromine in a SpaUsing Chlorine in a Spa
_________________ 16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter 12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"
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PaulR
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Post subject: Re: Testing bromine?  Posted: October 23rd, 2010, 4:54 pm |
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Joined: January 11th, 2009, 6:59 pm Posts: 1974 Location: Cupertino, CA
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chem geek wrote: You don't bother with the R-0003 for the CC test since it won't measure anything relevant -- the FC test measures both bromine and bromamine together (unlike chloramine that doesn't register in the FC test, but does in the CC test). This is a change from what you wrote here in March, "add the R-0003 reagent before you add the FAS-DPD titrating drops." Please confirm one way or the other... thanks! (I've been cruising for bromine info lately or I probably wouldn't have noticed this difference.) --paulr
_________________ BBB "Intermediate Swimmer" IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind Water testing instructions on one page
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chem geek
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Post subject: Re: Testing bromine?  Posted: October 23rd, 2010, 7:28 pm |
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Joined: March 28th, 2007, 2:40 pm Posts: 5412 Location: San Rafael, CA USA
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I was wrong before when I thought that you needed the R-0003 to measure bromamine. It turns out that bromamine is a strong enough oxidizer to react with the dye in the FC test. The chemistry behind this (as described in this link) is thought to be that at pool pH monobromamine (NH 2Br) readily forms a more active monobromammonium ion (NH 3Br +) whereas monochloramine (NH 2Cl) does not. At pH 7.5, about 10% is in the form of this monobromammonium ion. This ion is more reactive, possibly by more readily converting to ammonia and positively charged bromine atom (Br +) when reacting with other organic chemicals. I've now edited that older post. Thanks for catching that.
_________________ 16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter 12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"
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